CSA Child Support Complaints Forum
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Lizzie
I love the idea of a system overhaul, even after being on the winning side of a long running objection case.
My ex and his partner work in the mines, and have done for over 20 years. Child support amounts have fluctuated in line with the care arrangements and CSA garnish his wage.
He left his job and claimed he was living off his partners wage. I have 95% care of our teenage daughter who is in high school and work full time. After the initial objection to the nil income was upheld, I lodged a further objection based oh his capacity to earn. My ex didn’t respond to CSA’s requests to provide information and subsequently he was assessed on a 150K income. My ex’s payable monthly amount was set at the previous rate of $1500 p/m. He lodged an objection with the AAT and after the first hearing, withdrew his case, stating that he didn’t want to disclose his finances.
Recovery of the accruing debt or payment is unlikely, because he doesn’t work – so basically, no one one!
To say this has been a long and difficult time for all involved would be an understatement, it’s been hard on him a CSA (they copped a lot of abuse from him) and myself.
This could have been assessed more fairly and swiftly if my ex had worked with CSA and provided information when requested.
At the end of this process, I’ve learnt that the best and most efficient way to win an objection and deal with CSA is to work with them. It’s definitely time for change when a nil income earning parent can be assessed at 130k, unfortunately until we have change in the system it’s all we have to work with even when it results in negative wins.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Good that you can see how Change of Assessment decisions don’t make sense even if you are on the winning side. Payers have been driven to bankruptcy and worse by COA decisions that say their income is very high when they are actually struggling and have no income.
Our proposed new system would do away with such decisions using income benchmarks. There would also be no need to have long, arduous cases that are tough on the parties and expensive for taxpayers. Many bureaucrat jobs would go.
You’ll probably get your money even if it takes a very long time. The debt doesn’t go away. Child Support also have the power to take some money out of pensions, etc. And they can raid personal bank accounts.
Elly
My ex-partner has an approx. $56,500.00 child support debt owing to me. He will not lodge a tax return, specifically so that CSA cannot garnish his tax refund and pay me the Child Support debt that is owed to me. He has not lodged an ITR for 3 or 4 years, and i have had little Child Support during this time. I have written to ATO pleading that they lodge Default ITR’s on my ex-partner’s behalf so that I can be paid the Child Support owed to me. The matter is also in the Litigation section of CSA. What is the likelihood of ATO lodging Default ITR’s in these circumstances?
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Don’t think the ATO cares about child support cases. We get lots of feedback about payers not lodging tax returns for years. Note that tax refunds should be small or non-existent if tax is taken out by an employer under Pay as You Go (PAYG) arrangements.
Paul
My wife and I have sole parental responsibility for our 6 year old grandson. He has lived with us since he was two. The mother has disengaged with us and him and the father(the couple are now separated) decided he wants to re-establish the relationship. Putting our opinions aside, we are cautiously encouraging contact and hope it works out well for both of them. My question: Is the father and mother for that matter, obliged to pay child support as neither one has done thus far? The court order gives them weekly supervised visitations but up until now neither one has bothered.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Grandparents are eligible for child support. You would have to ask for an assessment to be done (via Dept of Human Services). Both parents would be obliged to pay based on their respective incomes.
If either parent has overnight care of at least 2 nights per fortnight, their payments would reduce.
Jane
My ex husband and I have a child together who is 11. He sees his daughter every 2nd Saturday from 8am to 6pm. He has recently informed me that as he buys clothes for her and take her to the movies, and other activites that he is eligible to claim these back from the amount of child support he pays me. I rang child support and one person said that’s true and one person said it’s not. Are you able to shed some light on this please ?
Thankyou
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
It’s not true. He can’t claim for those expenses. Don’t know where people get the idea that Child Support should be running around tabulating every little expense that a parent has.
Credit for care costs is based on the number of nights of care you have per fortnight. So, your ex husband gets zero credit and has to pay the full amount. Credit is only available for major things like private school fees and dental braces.
Annon
Where do i stand on this. I have a child 19months old, the father (we were married and separated due family and domestic violence) has not seen our child since 12 weeks old. He has applied for custody but got granted supervised visits. I have not received one cent child support at all – ever. He told his lawyer that i didnt want any of his money, which i dont get how i could have done that as we havent had any contact due to the police protection order and me fearing for myself and my child. He doesnt lodge tax returns and dont plan to either. Do i have a chance here getting anything from him or am i left with nothing? I feel if he wants any contact with his child he can support financially as well.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Is your child really at risk with the father? He has gone to a lot of trouble to have any contact. Why would he want to do harm to his own child that he has fought to be able to see? I presume the “violence” was only between you and him given he has hardly seen the child. And that should be over now you are well and truly separated.
While I don’t know the exact circumstances, my feeling is that the child should see his father in a normal way. The judge may have over-reached by restricting the relationship between father and child to supervised visits. If you allow a more normal relationship, the father may be cooperative with financial support. Your child may be far better off all-round.
If the child isn’t truly at risk, I would do the following. Ask the father to prepare “consent orders” that include a parenting plan where the child has regular unsupervised overnights with him and which includes undertakings for the father to pay a minimum amount of child support. If you don’t like what he proposes, suggest changes. Keep going until you agree. The final document than goes to court to be made into orders.
You could ask for the father’s lawyer to meet with you initially to get the ball rolling on this.
Angi
My partner and his ex have two children. She moved interstate unilaterally (without consent) which meant my partner had no contact with them. We sought legal help but the cost was outrageous and it honestly changed who we were so thought it best to just pick up the pieces when the time came.
On visitation after a year the youngest said that he was afraid of his step father and that his mum doesn’t life there anymore. So my partner was paying a huge amount of child support for their mother to live 3 hours away from them.
My partner offered that if she was not present in the house to guide and raise them, that she st least let him raise them. She said no cause that would mean loosing the child support. Again CSA said “that’s a legal fight not ours”.
The youngest stayed with us as we were very concerned about physical abuse from his stories but the oldest wanted to return. He confirmed the abuse but said he learnt to do what he was told and now has unlimited internet.
The youngest 9 has since been diagnosed with Autism. He needs a lot of help.
Unfairly again, they have one child each 100% yet my partner still has to pay significant child support $7000 a year to his ex who does not even live with the oldest child and only returns to him for 2 days a fortnight. She refuses to update her income or do tax.
This is so very unfair.
There should be no child support change hands and considering the child my partner raises has high needs, it is appalling. Of course we can apply for a review…..at the cost of displaying all living cost, savings and bank statements to his ex. His living costs are low cause he misses out…..hers are high cause she lives beyond her means.
Even if we had the money to fight this, how does he have the time to work full time, raise a child with special needs and somehow find time for custody battle.
This is so frustrating and the government questions why there is a mental health epidemic.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Messy situation in terms of finances. The fact is that the oldest child is not in your partner’s custody and so your partner should pay support. The money may help the child somehow – you don’t know the exact arrangements – even if the mother is generally absent. Seems like your partner has already lost the custody battle for the oldest child given he wants to live with the step-father. You may have to accept the situation even if it is not ideal.
Adrian
Thanks for your feedback Andrew.
After a considerable heart-2-heart conversation with my son he has agreed to return to normal 50/50 care. This is great news going forward.
Unfortunately the CSA still have their hooks in to me for the month of June saying that since it was 100% care by his mother, I am up for a fortune all month.
Realistically this was 14 days (2 of the 4 weeks) where the normal pattern was tweaked. When I asked the CSA over what period the percentage calculation was done, they were unable to answer.
If its over a year, the percentage care for my son allowing for this 2 week wobble is 47/53. Over a month its 0/100.
Is there way I can get CSA to sensibly comprehend this and make a sensible judgement – or did my sons tantrum just cost me ~$800 in disproportionate assessment for 2 those weeks?!
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Good news that you got the care arrangements sorted. Child Support use their judgement about the dates when things take effect. It’s simpler if both parents report the same thing. http://guides.dss.gov.au/child-support-guide/2/2/2
Rob
I have just found I’m not the biological father of my 15 year old. My wife and I are separated and we have other children. We know who the biological father is. Whilst I am aware that I will no longer be required to pay child support into the future I feel I am a victim of the system because I cannot recover costs from the biological father for the past 15 years. I love the child in question like they are my own – but this individual has paid absolutely nothing towards the raising of the child.
The system simply says he cannot be liable because he wasn’t aware he had a child. Well tough! He knew he was sleeping with my wife for several years.
Another case of irresponsible behaviour going unpunished. This event has destroyed my life and caused much heartache for the rest of the family.
It should be requirement the biological parent is required to pay compensation to someone in my position. It would certainly provide assistance to an innocent party who will likely do it very tough financially and emotionally as a result of the relationship breakdown.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Very unfortunate situation. Compensation for payments for a child who is not yours biologically is a difficult issue that you can’t really expect bureaucrats to solve.
You can take some comfort in knowing that the 3rd child in a case only increases payments slightly, and the 4th makes no difference.
Adrian
I have been separated from my wife for 6 years.
In that time our children (12 and 15 now) have been in 50/50 care. Under CSA guidelines due to income disparity I have paid ~$70 per week.
Recently my eldest son declared he wanted to live with mum and refused to come home (fairly typical 15yr old tantrum rebelling against parent and testing boundaries).
My wife has alerted CSA and gone for the cash grab instead of trying to talk our son back to normality.
Using the online calculator the weekly payments suggest they’ll rocket up from $70 per week, to $280. How can this be so???? Shouldn’t a 50% increase in number of night care result in a 50% increase in costs of that care?
If the cost of 2 children for 7 days in each 14 is $70 (14 ‘person days’ per fortnight), Why isnt the adjusted figure in proportion – ($105 per week for 21 ‘person days per fortnight)?
Is my wife suddenly expected to spend an extra $420 on those weeks where my son is there? Are they supposed to eat out every night now? Whats the justification?
I’m happy to pay a sensible amount to assist with increased expenditure but cannot see how these figures add up to any kind of sense!!!!
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
As you’ve indicated, parents should ensure that kids see both their parents regularly. No parent wants to be in a position where they to have to give in to the demands of a teen, or not see them, because the child has the option of staying at the other home full-time. It’s generally irresponsible for a parent to allow themselves to “win” the custody battle. Children shouldn’t have the ability to ditch a parent.
On the financial side, your payments go up by more than is justified. That’s the stupid formula. The whole time, it’s been assumed that your children are very expensive. But you haven’t been paying all that much due to 50:50 care. Now that’s changed because of the change in care percentages.
We have an alternative formula where you would have paid nothing at 50:50 care and would pay a more reasonable, non-exorbitant amount after the care change.
Suggest you try mediation involving all parties. You can initiate by yourself and the mediator will contact the other parties. The process allows the issues to be discussed and worked through in a calm way.
Sarah
Hi All,
My apologies in advance, this system feels as though it is breaking people down, myself being no exception to this. This is not directed at the many men who I know do the best they can by their children, both morally and legally in care, as well as financial support. Rather this is directed at those who use the system to maintain control and abuse post-separation, and child support are all too willing to facilitate the abuse, and in my circumstances, even become complicit when they’re aware of fraud.
I have the sole care of my children (14 & 5) and I am a full time PhD student. I also work, when I can get some – usually on a casual basis, and it’s not much I earn. In fact, my self-support amount is more than my income.
My ex is extremely wealthy, has multiple million dollar properties he owns and has negatively geared, is the partner of his family run law firm, and has minimised his income each and every year.
He has managed to call every year and estimate his income as being much lower than it has been – 80k – which child support consistently accept virtually overnight. I am then forced to go through COA’s and although most of the time it’s as though they haven’t even bothered looking at my evidence, showing bank statements increasing by 10’s of thousands each months, proving his earnings after tax were much higher than what he had sworn to the ATO and CSA, they’ve continued to overlook it. At most, they acknowledged some properties, IF I happen to get a COA officer who would at least do that.
So then I have been trapped in COA’s based on his estimated income, yet he will lodge taxes half way through that are much higher, and it has NEVER been reconciled, despite their assurances it would.
This has happened every year now. He has again estimated an 80k income which they’ve accepted, despite his 18/19 returns being over 200k. They make it so easy for him and just don’t seem to care about me and my children at all.
I have lodged another COA – and it still hasn’t been allocated to an officer over two months later. It just appears they’re going out of their way to assist him to minimise his income, and jump at anything he wants, no matter how it impacts me and my children. I’ve never felt as though we’ve been treated fairly.
They have never reconciled his income, and if we’re trapped in a COA decision that’s based on his estimate but lodges returns much higher, they say there’s nothing they can do – which is BS because it was based on the evidence at the time – his false and misleading evidence provided telling them his income was much less than it shows in his returns and all other assets and resources.
It’s too the point everyone has suggested he or his dad who is also a well connected lawyer may know someone either at DHS-CS or the AAT who are giving a wink to the egregious financial discrepancies, which are abundantly clear.
I’m sick of this, and I’m sick of the way I’m constantly being treated. It has broken down my self-esteem so much, as though we’re completely worthless next to him.
I pay for everything on my own and have sole care of the children – we can’t even afford to do anything fun ever while he’s living an extremely lavish life! It’s upsetting when I give everything I have to the children, he has made the choice to have no involvement and is not even made to comply with his legal obligations to assist financially, which he has the capacity to do, but is not.
I don’t understand how COA could ignore my application for months while we’re living the way we are. It’s not hard work for them – they have more than sufficient evidence and won’t need to take out level 1 and 2 searches – they just don’t want to do it and treat us fairly.
I’ve complained, but nothing happened – so close to going further to the Ombudsman with all of my evidence, including a statement from a lawyer suggesting he has committed tax fraud based on his bank statements – which CSA are aware of, but have continued to ignore to our disadvantage.
I just don’t know what else to do, aside issuing expensive proceedings in Court, to force some honesty and compliance from him.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
The Change of Assessment process should be able to solve this. A COA decision can apply for multiple years. You could make the focus on your case not about an income level for a particular year, but about his strategy for minimising payments.
You could push for a multi-year decision based on the last reasonable estimate of his income. Focus on highlighting his strategy and achieving consistent payments and be less concerned about the potential for him to earn more after you’ve locked in a particular income level for him.
norma dargin
just appalling that CSA take sides with the scammers and honest people get left out in the cold to defend themselves. just disgusting.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
I agree. The system has been set up as a race to the bottom. Generous, kind, reasonable, honest people, whether they are payers or recipients, tend to be punished financially.
Steve
Hi andrew,
Current custody of my 5 and 3 year old girls is 5 nights vs 9 nights a fortnight…
I earn 100k and x wife earns approx 40 k and child support is 265 a week.. Since the split i have also offered and paid half sport activities, half school uniforms on to of CS.
Now the X wants me to sign a binding agreement to lock in till the girls are 18 that i pay: half school fees for private schools, half orthodontic, half sport and extracurricular.
If this is standard practice- ie dads pay child support and half of the above costs on top then i am happy to lock this in, my issue is that over 10+ years financial positions and life circumstances change so im reluctant to lock in- i will lock in if it is the “norm” though… Interested in your thoughts?
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
It’s up to you to decide how to manage your relationship with your ex. Be generous if that works. But also know this: (i) you don’t have to agree to anything formally and doing so weakens your future position with Child Support given you are the payer and (ii) you don’t have to cover half the costs.
According to the child support formula, with her higher care %, your ex is being given most of the credit for covering expenses. That’s why you are paying so much. Child Support effectively assume that she is bearing the lion’s share of out-of-pocket expenses.
It can be simpler for parents to cover different things, especially if one parent wants something for the kids and the other doesn’t. You could agree in principle to share costs but I don’t see the point of doing so in writing.
James
My ex wife and I have been separated for nearly 6 years now. She is a psychologist and I am a tradesman (not self employed). We share 50/50 custody of the kids.
Ever since we split I’ve had to pay her and year after year she earns less and less as she appears to be working less.
According to the Child Support Assessment, she doesn’t even earn the “self support amount” of $24,535 and therefore I am forced maximum dollar even though it’s 50/50 custody.
I have no issues paying for my children but what contribution does she actually pay toward her kids?
We live in Melbourne and this year alone she has already been on approx 7 trips to Cairns.
Is it unfair of me to think that the majority of me child support payments are funding her lifestyle?
I understand that some mothers were deprived of further education and/or career development as a result of staying home and raising kids, however in my situation my ex continued to gain further education and career development when we were married.
I am unsure of my rights and what, if anything I can do about this.
Any advise would be much appreciated.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
You have the right to apply for a Change of Assessment based on earning capacity. A time-consuming path to go down that doesn’t always produce great results for payers. Child Support would have to find that she is earning less than her potential, with some intent to affect payments.
Our alternative policy here is simple: no child support when care is 50:50. Each parent provides care and spends according to their own capacity and want. Normally, the higher-earning parent would spend more anyway. There is no need for government-enforced payments.
Sarah
Hi,
I have two kids and their father has paid basically no child support in two years (in the middle of that two years I recieved one or two payments until his employment changed).
He is currently being assessed to pay only the amount of $67 per week from a previous job assessment. Apparently they do not have his current employment details and so can’t make a deduction from his wage. However, I called to discuss this and the lady stated that perhaps he was currently working under an ABN number, which is why they haven’t been able to track his employment. I took it upon myself to call back with his ABN number which I found online and a place that I suspected he worked for. Months have gone by and they have not made any progress with tracking him. I suspect that he is working under an ABN for a business as a contractor and also not paying the tax he is legally supposed to. I know for a fact that he works because when my kids visit he talks to them about his work, where it is located and what he does. He refused to lodge a tax return last year and probably won’t this year. Why is it taking them so long? Can they not subpoena his bank account statements and take legal action? This is incredibly unfair to have to raise the children, be the main provider, support my kids relationship with their father and then be completely ripped off for such a ridiculously small amount of money.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Unfortunate situation for you. However, you can’t really expect, and taxpayers don’t want, Child Support to have to work so hard to chase up money.
We would have simpler arrangements that don’t let payers get away with these sorts of things. And it wouldn’t require expensive work from Child Support. Anything dodgy and payers have to pay at benchmark rates, with accumulating debt. Simple and effective.
Steve
I’m just wondering what child support is supposed to cover…
My ex wife pays me child support as she earns more than me.
We have 50% shared care and we are having a court order agreement setting out the arrangements which we have drawn up together.
There are no school fees as the children attend state schools. However, she wants to include that I pay for all other “school expenses” such as excursions, unforms, etc. The reason she says is because the child support she pays me should cover this.
Is this correct? I thought that child support is paid to bring both parents in line financially to be able to support the children, and thus we should both be sharing ALL child costs equally (apart from living costs when the children are with each parent)? Am I wrong in thinking this?
If the order for me to pay all these expenses is put into the agreement then it would not make sense should are salaries change in future and I earn more than she does for example.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
There are no rules about who pays for what. In theory, out-of-pocket costs should be split when care is 50:50. But that’s complicated. And maybe it’s fair that you pay schools-related costs – which aren’t much anyway – because you are getting money off her even though she is also providing 50% care. I would just pay the costs. Karma will reimburse you in the end.
Sally
Hi There
My ex is constantly trying to reduce his taxable income to reduce his child support payments. Last year he managed to drop it by half and this year even further despite paying nearly 100k per year in rent, having numerous properties etc. Now he is claiming a refund of overpayment because his taxable income has dropped dramatically. I am fed up with this. I didnt take action last year because it is life sucking, but this year its just becoming a joke. I didnt think he could claim overpayments to me because of reduced income from the previous year.
Is that correct? Please help.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
See what Child Support does. Highly unlikely you would have to pay anything back.
Nathan
My ex hasn’t let me see my daughter since she was 6 months old. She is 12 years old this year. I pay the minimum child support. I refuse to [work] to pay child support for a child who’s life I’m not entitled to be a part of. Why do you make people like me who made an effort to be a part of their child’s life but just got shut down by your government pay child support? Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to pay more child support if I had access to my child and she wasn’t used as a pawn.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Is this for real? No – there is no moral justification for what you are doing. Get to work and start providing for your daughter.
And thanks for the abusive messages after I posted the response above. You deserve a punch in the mouth from me on behalf of your innocent, unfortunate daughter tough guy. Would be very happy to do it.
David
I currently share 50/50 custody of my 17 and 18 year old daughters which has worked well for most of the time over the last 7 years. My ex and I have an informal agreement whereby I pay for all their education, health and some other minor expenses instead of paying her @$600 per month as assessed by the child support agency. When we’re with the girls then we pay the usual living costs individually. Recently she has threatened to go back and ask for 7 years of child support. Is it a fair position as certainly the costs for education, health etc are significantly more that should she proceed I can ask to recover 50% of the costs that I have paid?
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Child support can only be backdated to the time when the Department of Human Services is first contacted. Keep receipts and records of agreement so that you can be credited with child-related spending if necessary.
Soph
Hi Andrew,
My ex-partner is leaving tooverseas work overseas (being dual citizen). He won’t be a tax resident of australia anymore.
I’m not working and have a young child..
He told me he would give me some money as support, but if I’m not happy with the amount or if I fail to agree for him to see the child when he visits, he will give me nothing, it’s ‘take it or leave it’. The law in the country he goes to is different to australia..
What can I do?
Soph
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
It’s a negotiation. You need to figure out if you are in a position to ask for more. Ultimately, you can’t withhold access because that would be wrong.
Donna maishman
I cannot get through on the phone to child support. Been trying all day. Currently on hold for an hour. I also cannot get into my child support online account. It sais I am not authorised. I need assistance please.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Leave your phone on speaker while you wait, so you can do something useful.
RD
My wife and 3 kids live in our family home which we own mortgage free, which I paid for with money I had before I met her.
Since separating 2 years ago I have paid $2000 a month to rent nearby and have the kids in my rental 4 nights a fortnight.
I pay her $2000 per month directly from a verbal agreement, she wanted $3k but we agreed on $2k.
Based on our salaries $2000 is about $500 a month above the CSA calculator rate. I also pay most of the kids sport and dance fees and anything else she can get out of me for kids shoes,clothes, birthday presents, school camps etc.
As a result I have very little to live on an she tells me I’m doing well as its universally acknowledged the CSA amount is about 1/3 of what kids actually cost.
We are approaching legal settlement so need to formalise child support and have a clear understanding of my obligation.
Does a market rental value for the family home she lives in rent and mortgage free, extra-curricular activities etc count toward my child support obligation?
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Child support depends on each parent’s income, but can be adjusted for certain other prescribed expenses. That’s how it works. So, no – home ownership, etc is not a factor.
STEFAN VAN RHYN
I have four children, ages 20, 17, 15 and 14. The 20 year old has “zero care” as he is over 18. The 17 year old was living with my wife and I, and the other 3 with their mother. The child support that was supposed to be paid by the ex for the 17 yo was used as a credit to offset my payments as the majority paying parent. Earlier this year the 17 yo moved to Canberra to study, and I am in Melbourne. I would think that this makes him independent, and he is getting Centrelink on that basis.
Once I informed Centrelink that he had moved out, they increased my payments per month by $500. The joke is, the ex doesn’t even need the money, as they have 2 incomes. I am supporting my wife, who does not have a job, and has just gained her permanent residence.
Can’t common sense prevail here? I don’t understand why I need to find a further $500 each month. I’m supposed to pay $1665 a month now, on one wage, $1100 was enough. Can I claim some kind of exemption for my dependent wife? Why is my son (who is 18 in a month anyway) relocation being used against me. Is he independent or not? Why does his relocation only affect me detrimentally.
CSA is threatening legal action, salary deduction etc
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Your son has moved out and is about to turn 18. Seems “common sense” that you receive less credit for care costs, doesn’t it?
Yanetta
My partner is paying child support for his 13 year old son don’t have any issues there as it is his child but we both would like to know if he should still be paying anything. As a year ago the mother has had 0% care and has signed everything over to the grandmother whom the child is now living with. What can be done?
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Your partner still has to pay child support, whether the mother or grandmother is caring for the child. If the grandmother applied for child support, she would be entitled to receive it from him. Payments could go up if she has a lower income than the mother.
Jo
to add to my previous comment: since splitting we have so far been in agreement to each pay 50/50 of the cost of the children’s school fees (they are in a catholic school) and before and after school care fees. no other payments have been made between us of any kind, so even though i am providing for all the kids’ needs 25 days of the month, i have not asked any payment from him to support them with those costs.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Have not published your previous comments due to excessive length. You need to simplify the issues, not just for here but in dealing with Child Support. In deciding a case, no-one cares about the whole big story with all the details. Cases usually hinge on one or two points. You need to decide the basis for appealing and you should be able to state that in one short sentence.
Gemma Eley
Child support is the hardest thing to deal with ever and I am 100% for the change to its policies and calculator.
We now do 50/50 plus i am the low income earner and I 100% believe if doing 50/50 then no $$ should be exchanged as we have equal cost involved in care of the child why should someone be penalised for working harder?
I also hate how it is worked out based on the gross income and that the payment goes up and not capped. A child only costs a certain amount which should be set per child then if unable to pay that amount reduce it for low income. Again don’t penalise someone for working harder.
I have never taken extra money off my Ex no matter how much more he earns than me.
Pretty much our system pulls for money hungry people that want to use every avenue they can to work less and get the most money out of their exes, which isn’t best for the child and creates a bad co parenting arrangement.
I have an amazing co parenting situation based on we used common sense to work out what was best rather than the shitty system in place by child support, but a lot of people cant do this so reley on the system to work whats best for the child which it does not.
Also if you over pay you should get a credit why shouldn’t you?? ridiculous the trouble you can get in for under disclosing but if over pay you are just left with tough luck.
They put too much emphasis on what it was like if was in a coupled relationship instead of how to make it best for all involved.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Well said.
S
Hi Andrew,
I’m in a 50/50 care arrangement which has been going for over three years. During this time I have worked hard and sacrificed for the benefit of my family resulting in the completion of a masters degree and moving forward in my career with a significant pay increase next financial year. A really tough couple of years that now means I can give my boys a better life.
Meanwhile, my ex wife has had a new baby, and has not returned to work after maternity leave. She has now stated that she doesn’t know when she will return to work. I am going to be in a nightmare scenario where my income has shot up considerably and hers is going to go down massively.
The CSA will allow you to negate income increases following separation for the first three years, which I now sit outside of.
This feels grossly unfair as:
– She is benefitting from the success and hard work that I put into my career.
– There is no incentive for her to return to work, which actually uplifts the combined income available to the children.
– She is only able to do this as she is reliant on her new partner’s income which is not reflected in any assessment. While I understand the rationale for this approach, it is still an important factor regarding incentives to return to work.
– It disincentives me to move forward in my career given the amount of work and stress that I have to take, just for additional money to be sent to her.
– Why only allow income increases to be negated for only three years? How is any longer different in principle?
What is your (or others’) experiences with requesting a change in assessment due to special circumstances in this scenario on the basis of the other party not utilising their earning capacity?
I’ve read on your website that reform is proposed? Is this going well and do you expect any change.
Thanks so much and what a great initiative.
S
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Unfortunately, the disincentives and unfairness you are experiencing are a direct result of the child support formula. It’s a complex but fundamentally flawed and stupid formula. That’s why we’ve come up with a far better one, which we are confident would represent world’s best practice if implemented.
Not sure what is going to prompt reform. Thousands upon thousands of complaints don’t seem to make a difference. You’d think the massive suicide rates among divorced men would get people’s attention, but it seems that “domestic violence” is the only sexy topic at the moment. Disheartening to see politicians throwing money at propaganda campaigns to reinforce cartoonish stereotypes about men.
Sharna
I have been “receiving” CS for about 4 years now. My child’s father was never in the picture and deported nearly 3 years ago. He is unable to return to Australia, and I have asked CSA if I can cancel my current assessment. It’s currently being garnished from his wages, and I receive payments of varying amounts every few months. CSA has told me that they cannot cease this agreement legally, but I have just a Child Support Termination online.
He has never once willingly paid CS and to be honest I can’t be bothered, as CSA contact me to follow this up. What are my grounds for ceasing an agreement, and can I actually do so?
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
I think the issue is that you’re expected to seek child support since not doing so increases welfare payments. Your email is a bit unclear for me to comment further.
kevin
I have been the paying parent since separation five years ago I have two daughters ten and fourteen and have 50/50 care. I have no issues paying for my kids hence the reason of applying myself at work for higher wages. as a general rule all fathers that get to spend time with there kids are very similar. I do have issues with CSA though they use bullying tactics are unfair to the paying parent in all areas love to apply there own personal comments work in away that they are a law unto themselves have a name that they do not represent (at no way are they supporting children just the payed parent)
they have been used as a control against me. there decisions have caused my kids harm and I get through every day hoping some one will be held responsible. I already grew up through child support which saw us stolen away from our father and still have a fractured relationship with our whole family 35 years later. to be used as financial pawns through child hood is the most disgusting thing that can happen in any family yet we have a nation that promotes this through CSA. oh and here is some complaints stuff that needs to be rectified immediately there is no such thing as 50/50 the most you can do is 49/51 49 to the payer
that means any government money incentive’s bus runs you name it are awarded to the one with primary care. where is the equality
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Some good points.
Under our proposed new system, we would definitely have 50:50. And it would be quite common because the result is simple: no support payable (which also means no admin and no hassles).
June Drysdale
I applied for COA reasons 2 and 8 which were established by DM who awarded me full amount of orthodontics against the father and an increase in child support because his income was deemed to be well above what he stated in his tax return. The father objected. The Objections officer did not call me to discuss or give me a chance to ask questions. The first I knew of the objection was when I was informed by mail. I did send back some comments but was not sure if they were relevant or appropriate. The father’s objection was allowed and in his decision the officer reviewed my original application and established reason 2 for orthodontics. He also established reason 8, but declared that without forensic accounting he could not put a figure on the father’s extra income, so he ignored it. In his new assessment, he did not award me any money for the orthodontics even although he established reason 2, and gave me approximately $3 a week extra child support. He phoned to tell me his decision but I could not understand his accent very well. All he said to me was that the father was still paying for everything out of the regular child support. I am the child’s grandmother and have joint custody of her with her father. My income is retirement pension and Family Tax benefit and I am experiencing severe hardship. I had to pay a deposit of over $1000 to the orthodontist to get the treatment started and obtain a receipt for CSA before they would accept the application, and I am paying $255 a month on a payment plan. To date I have paid nearly $4000 and have had to borrow from family and Centrelink to make ends meet. I don’t know why the Objections officer has treated me so unfairly. Can you throw any light on this, thank you.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Child Support are often incompetent. They try to follow a set of internal “rules of thumb” rather than using discretion or logic.
For example, if Child Support can’t estimate true income, they throw up their hands and give up and use some old figure. How stupid is that? That’s what they’ve done this time it seems.
With lower estimated income, I guess they then assume the parent can’t afford to pay or wouldn’t normally go ahead with expensive dental treatment.
Sorry that this has worked against you. It wouldn’t happen under our proposed new system because we would have intelligent policies for dealing with uncertain income estimates.
George
Hi,
My ex and i have 50% custody. Her income is low so I have to pay child support via “private collection”.
She always wants “cash”, so i gave her cash since last year.
Now, she needs more money and she rang CSA and told them I didnt pay her since oct 2018.
What can I do now?
thank you
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Do you have records at all (e.g. email)? CSA needs evidence.
Andreas Taylor
During my time as a victim “customer” of the Department of in-human Services, beginning some two years and one month ago, my ex-wife has successfully weaponized the DHS for her financial gain and as a way of inflicting lots of short-term damage to me financially. During this relatively short period of time, it has been necessary for me to lodge three objections to care notices, an Application for Special Circumstances, a subsequent objection to the result of the Special Circumstances decision and lastly, an objection to the Administrative Appeals Tribunal for the most recent decision related to care that DHS made. In all of these five cases except the last, where no decision has yet been made, my objections have been sustained and the decision has in the end, been in my favor. This does not seem to impact the blatant bias in their ongoing decision making, nor does it mitigate the toll on me personally to have to deal with this predatory organization. In the last case, DHS used several weeks of care over the Christmas holidays, with lots of ad hoc days and an irregular pattern of care as a basis for determining the pattern of care. This resulted in an assessment 65% in favor of the ex-wife, when neither party was asking for anything other than 50/50 for the child in question! Obviously, the particulars are somewhat more complicated than this, but I want to emphasize that the essential pattern has been that the DHS assumes the guilt of the payer as a starting point, but in the end, gets it wrong most of the time.
Anonymous
When my partner was younger he was living interstate for a period of time and was pursued by an older woman. He told her he was in a relationship but that didn’t deter her.
She dangled no strings attached sex and he took the bait and went there a couple of times. On the last occasion he was drunk and she took the opportunity to conceive. She was ten years older than him and in her late 30’s.
He has always paid 100% of the child support calculation as she either doesn’t work, works part-time or chooses to work in minimum wage jobs so doesn’t contribute to the calculation.
He has filed a Change of Assessment to see if he can have the calculation reduced to a fair contribution. She also has assets and is in a better financial position than him.
Does CSA, AAT or the courts take into consideration these types of situations to come to a fair outcome?
I know his is not the only case out there and there are women who try and trap, trick, deceive men as the government incentivises this behaviour.
For a woman on minimum wage who can’t afford a sperm donor or the cost of bringing up a child this is like winning a lottery ticket gaining hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Unfortunately it’s the children that suffer with fathers that never wanted them. For a system that is supposed to support children it is failing terribly whilst men are suicidal in these situations.
And for women who are partnered to these men, well we wear the cost, not only dealing with men with psychological trauma but having to pay for the shortfalls due to our partners income going to other women.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Child support is essentially a morality-free zone. That is, it’s not up to them to make judgments about life choices, etc. I wouldn’t want public servants doing that anyway.
The only morality seems to be that money must be shovelled towards the person who has the kids most of the time, even if it’s excessive and unfair and even bad for children. That’s not in the legislation. It’s the fault of the formula and the culture and ingrained practices of the bureaucrats.
Our new formula would make a big change by starting with the assumption that each parent is responsible for 50% of care. That way, any women of the kind you describe couldn’t bludge off men so much.
Jason
Hi Andrew,
I have my two children 43% of the time (6 days per fortnight). Due to the income disparity, even though my ex-wife earn $70,000 per year, my child support payments are $370 per week which is nearly $20,000 per year tax free. This more than covers medical expenses, and private school fees. Do I need to pay for half (or 43%?) of medical expenses when I easily pay enough child support for this (plus holidays to the Gold Coast!)? I think I’m okay for the private school fees considering I was careful not to express agreement.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
For day-to-day expenses, including routine medical care, it’s up to the parents to decide who pays for what. As you indicated, payments are often excessive, in which case the receiver should cover most costs to make things a bit fairer.
Ingo Bentrup
Hi Andrew, I am not taking care of my son’s child support case, but I am, however, trying to help him through a very difficult period. That is what parents do. He does not have the time that I have being a pensioner to research the issues that he is constantly being bombarded with by his vindictive ex. I posted to your site hoping to get an answer to what I considered to be a legitimate question. Clearly I was wrong. And her finances are very much my business as well because she also owes my wife and I a considerable sum of money.
Colin
I can’t believe when my ex notified CSA that she was going on maternity leave I instantly had to pay 100% cost of children (2 kids 50% shared custody). It has been an abhorrent 9 months since she returned to her full time 85k p.a. Job that I have tried to get a fair rebalance of child support. It has taken since January 20th until May 20th for CSA to actually call our respective employers and check income information. I have had to use the complaints process. She used settlement monies to buy an investment property jointy with new partner and contributed 90% of the cost . She claims she will not get a cent of the $350 dollars a week it is being rented out for as taxable income. Child support agency accept this as I have been notified today. I am so tired of the battle. I have a half million dollar mortgage on the marital home to service. I cannot get fairness and everything is stacked in favour of the first person to repartner. I have worked so hard and always contributed very substantially to the care of the kids but it all has just worked against me. The system is a one way downward spiral and most men are on the damned side of the equation… just left totally unsupported by government and left to rot…treated as collateral damage. I now understand why there is horrific over-representation of male suicide and self exile from society.
Dave
Ok, thanks Andrew for such a prompt reply. I understand I will have to pay more, but do you think that I will get slapped with penalties as well? Also, will the extra amount be calculated up to the 8th of November only? Do you think CSA will show any flexibility and give me time to pay off as well? Should I be proactive know and call them to discuss and start paying some now?
What are your thoughts?
Thanks again
Dave
PS I have been paying child support since my daughter was 3 months old! Thanks as well, I have used your forum before, and you have provided good advice!
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Penalties probably wouldn’t be applied but would just tell them anyway. New assessment would be from 1 July to 8 November.
Dave
Hi Andrew,
My daughter turned 18 in August 2018 and my child support payable by me ceased on the 8th of November 2018, due to my daughter finishing year 12 classes on that date. I had not much choice but to do an estimate for FY19 instead of FY18 taxable as my forecasted income was going to drop quite significantly due to contract changes of my employment. As it turns out, due to an unforeseen amount of overtime and working away from home in 2019 (after my assessment ended) I am going to be over by about 40k of my estimate but still about 20k less than my FY18 income, after I complete my FY19 tax return. What is the best course of action for me to take, and what is the worst case scenario here?
Regards
Dave
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
No big deal as I understand it. They will use your final 2018-19 taxable income to calculate how much extra child support you need to pay.
M
Hi Andrew
Just looking for some advise my partner has a debt of around 90k with CSA. Lots of reasons behind him not paying like not getting to see the kids threats etc so He buried his head thinking it would go away. Is there anyway we can get this reduced or if we came to a private arrangement with the mother could this be wiped and start off on an agreed amount. He has no assets or savings. Any information would be appreciated. – I have just found out about this I had no idea and obviously want to try and get on top of it to get on with our future.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
You can’t wish away child support debt. Your partner seems to be a fool with money quite frankly.
Ingo Bentrup
My son has just received an “Application to change your assessment Special Circumstances” from his ex. She has provided just the first page of her personal bank account statement which shows Deposits & Credits for the relevant period to be $29,404.00. His payments to her and the payments that she receives from the Government amount to approximately $20,000.- leaving about $9,000.00 of revenue unaccounted for. My son has asked for a copy of the full statement be provided but was told by Child Support that it is not relevant and the ex dose not need to supply it. They said that only his information is relevant. Is this correct? Her form clearly states in Q 13 “Give details of all accounts held by you in banks,” etc.. It does not say partial details?? Surely the system cannot be that biased??
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Given your son is a parent, I presume he is an adult and wonder why he needs his Dad to take care of his child support case. And why are his ex’s finances also your business? I’m not sure he is allowed to share that info with you. Maybe just let Child Support do their job. They probably have a reliable assessment for her income, which is why they are taking the position they are.
Elle
Thank you for addressing and trying to rectify the terribly flawed system.
I have been a single mum for the last 8 years with 97% care of my son. My ex husband and I separated when I was a stay at home mum and the ex was in a local government position. He decided at the time to completely sever ties with me and his boy, and I scrambled to get myself a job, a car, and start all over again.
When his council contract finished a yearater he worked in hospitality for 2 years on minimum wage, purposefully reducing his CSA payments to the bere minimum ($1440~ per year).
I decided to take matters into my own hands and live with the freedom of full custody, lived overseas with my son and worked my way through postgraduate and promotions, working 3 jobs and now cutting back to 2. I’ve worked hard to now be earning over 6 figures so we can live the lifestyle I want for him. But as the primary carer, the total I get from my ex is $42 a week.
Meanwhile the ex has had another child (also reducing my payment), been in a defacto relationship in a regional centre with a much lower and shared cost of living, yet our self funded costs are calculated equally?!
After also going through breast cancer treatments last year and chewing up savings for treatments and time off work I realised I just can’t do it by myself.
After 6 years without payment negotiations I decided to approach the ex and his partner for more money the other week. My son is getting older, our rent is higher after just moving into a 2 bedroom place (we have always shared a room or I have slept in the living room) so the costs are naturally increasing.
The offer they came back with today is an extra $100 – per month. This is because they just managed to buy their own house and have a tighter budget with mortgage repayments (something I can’t even dream to consider).
How the CSA isn’t asset tested I dont know?!
That will make the humble total of $67 per week in CSA support.
I am angry and tired of doing twice as much for half the benefit for my child.
Do I have any options for changing this at the moment?
Thank you
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
The problem is that he is earning little and there’s not much anyone else can do about that. Can your son spend more time with him during the holidays? That would help a bit. I would probably take his offer as you don’t seem to have leverage to push for more money.
Natasha
Hi,
I have 100% custody and no contact with my daughters father. He has a law and accounting degree but works for his family and claims (and lodges with the ATO) he is earning minimum wage. He has recently lodged his 18/19 taxable income as zero, further reducing child support payable. Is there any way I can contest this without having to jump through hoops and filling out mountains of paperwork trying to prove something I cannot substantiate.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
If you apply for a Change of Assessment (Reason 8), Child Support will do most of the work in assessing his finances. Most of the paperwork for you is providing details about your own finances.
Mark
Inexplicably long call hold times literally every time I try to ring. I work for a living and can’t afford to waste 2 hours of my day waiting to talk to someone. It’s inexcusable.
Sam
Hi,
My ex changed his career to be self employed so for the past 5 years has paid as little as $25 a week for child support. I did a change of assessment and won one and then last year again it was changed to $95 a week. We both agreed on private school as one child. My ex has never paid. Our child has a scholarship for 50% which helps but still for one parent who has the child 100% its hard. My main query is our child is a very good Tennis player. In State teams and Nationals. The father won’t share any of these costs. I don’t get this would not a father be proud of this.? Would not a father want to share costs instead of trying to get out of paying it. He says “no” as it’s my choice. I just need to know from others what they think as I am really confused. Background – He is wealthy and remarried and both himself and wife Travel Overseas a few times a year, both drive $85,000 cars with personalised number plates, races, restaurants etc. They live a great life. Always to busy to see his own child. He moved away not me. Thanks as I just need to know others thoughts.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
If your ex was supportive of the tennis lessons, trips to tournaments, etc, he would potentially be liable to help cover the costs (see http://guides.dss.gov.au/child-support-guide/2/6/9 ). Seems like he doesn’t want to help financially and is willing to stay away to ensure that. Sounds like a jerk.
John
Hi, I need to ask for some advice. I have been paying my ex child support for the last 5 years with our own agreement. I have (voluntarily) overpaid her to assist her and my son – she has primary care, roughly 75/25 ratio. I am now in a position where I am starting a job which pays considerably less, and I also have a new mortgage and a baby on the way with my new wife. I have told my ex that I am unable to keep paying this amount and my payments will decrease as I will have a 12k pay cut and I am not in a financial position where I can overpay her anymore. I start this job at the end of June. My ex is now saying she wants to go “on the books”. So if she applies, will I have to pay the child support amount based on my last tax return even though since then the situation has changed significantly including a 12k salary cut and a new baby?
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
You can estimate income for the current financial year if you’ve experienced a pay cut of 15% or more. New children also improve your child support situation.
Mark
So here is my story. My ex-wife and I separated in late October 2018, and within the first week of November 2018 I had lodged claims with both Centrelink and Child Support Agency for 50/50 care of our two children. Now, despite Centrelink having recorded that I lodged the claim, the Child Support Agency somehow didn’t register my claim, and I had to re-apply in late December when Centrelink contacted me to state I hadn’t lodged a claim and she was disputing the custody split. Little did I know this was going to be the first of a long battle.
So I re-lodged, and on 15 January 2019 had a call from the Child Support Agency to confirm if I was the biological father of my children. I agreed, and asked why this was being asked, only to discover she had lodged a claim the day before I re-lodged, so they had ignored my claim and were acting only on hers. They then proceeded to ask about my income. I advised that my 17/18 income was not indicative of my 18/19 income as I had not worked for 7 months in that year and was now on a full time contract. I was told this didn’t matter and they would do a re-assessment when I lodged my 18/19 tax return.
So then in early February I get an email advising that they had done an assessment, and she owed me about $8,000 per annum. This is when the real drama started. As this notice stated my 17/18 income, I rang three times that day to ask if there was any way it could be adjusted as I knew my ex-wife would dispute it (and I didn’t think it was fair to assess me at almost $60k less than my actual income). Each time, I was told no, you cannot do anything until you lodge your next tax return.
So imagine my surprise last week when I get a letter from the Child Support Agency advising that she has asked for a reassessment (on the day the initial assessment was made) as I have lied about my income, that she has paid all the school fees and health insurance for our children! And I have 14 days to respond, 5 of which were already consumed by their mail process. Oh, and I have to provide evidence of my income and any issues I want to dispute.
Imagine my surprise when I ring the Child Support Agency to query why she could ask for a reassessment and not provide any evidence, but I was not afforded the same opportunity when I queried it not once, but four times! Their response? It’s the legislation. But hang on, how can it work one way, but not the other, that is a completely flawed argument. And not only that, my response and any evidence is then given back to her to dispute it, yet I am not afforded the same response if she makes a further reply.
So I proceed to respond to the allegations, providing evidence of my current contract, an invoice from the school that clearly shows I’ve been charged for 50% of the school fees, and a statement from her health insurance fund that shows the amount she has told them is $6 more per week than she is actually paying (and that’s after the recent rate rise – before that it was about $8.50 per week). My response also asked why she could make false allegations and all the responsibility falls on me to prove otherwise (unlike any other legal system in the world where it is up to the person making the allegation to provide evidence before someone is assumed guilty).
I also made the statement that I can see now why so many fathers consider killing themselves when dealing with these matters. Because it is draining, it is exhausting, and it destroys a person. Amazingly, it was this statement that had them respond. I’ve had two phone calls in a week from social workers and ‘senior’ staff concerned about my welfare. Not about the actual flaws in the system, but simply checking that I’m not in distress. So they kindly try and explain the process to me. They will do a reassessment and I may be required to pay money back. Wait, what? I’ve told you four times (six if you include my two claims), I’ve relied on your information in good faith, and now I have to pay money back?
So what are my avenues for compensation due to maladministration? There are none! Oh, we’ll listen to the tapes and if you’ve been given incorrect or insufficient advice, we’ll address that with the staff member. Sure, you do that, but what do I get? Nothing, you aren’t entitled to anything.
Turns out, not only do I now have to pay back what she has paid me, but there is a very real chance I will now have to pay her due to other circumstances resulting from the separation.
Now, I have the tenacity and desire to fight this every step of the way because there are bigger issues at play for me, but the fact that this agency can act on baseless allegations and put all the responsibility on the defendant (read father) to prove otherwise is wrong. And the fact that there is no liability for their misinformation and poor administration is just appalling.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Sorry to hear about your experiences Mark. The problem is that every administrative procedure, every 50:50 call, every prejudiced assumption errs on the side of the receiver or mother. The intent behind this bias is to support children. But the total effect is a system that is toxic and unfair to men. And this phenomenon extends to family law as well.
In business, we often look at the customer experience. The customer experience for men dealing with child support cases of any complexity can be absolutely horrendous. Our new system would help fix the cultural and administrative problems by assuming at the outset that both parents have a responsibility to provide for their child(ren).
james
Can CSA reduce a payment to a single mum while her appeal has been lodged (but not heard )by the AAT?
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Yes. As far as I’m aware, an appeal doesn’t do anything until it’s heard and acted upon.
PJM
Hi Andrew
I’ve been reading some of the articles posted here and my heart really goes out to all the hard working dads who are currently being terrorised by the CSA.
It really is a silent war being waged on fathers by this immoral and obscene department and it needs to be closed down.
The suicide rate especially with young dads who can see no way out is not being spoken about or the financial hardship that they cause is completely ignored not to mention the dignity that is stripped away from you when they end their call with a threat!
Like many of your posts I’m also being screwed over by this dept with their outrageous assessments on what I have to pay.
Don’t get me wrong I want to pay money for my children I always have and always will but it has to be at a sustainable level.
I won’t go into exact figures but lets say that I’m paying 30% tax on my salary and the CSA are garnishing a further 25% from my net Salary!!
This doesn’t leave much left over especially with supporting my little 18 month old from my second marriage who is the only thing that keeps me going.
This post isn’t really about advise it’s more about my observation of this system.
Let me summarise –
The more I earn the more I pay
The less my ex earns the more I pay
The less time I’m given with my kids the more I pay
Request a change of assessment (My ex wife gets to see all my finances even though it’s not her call it’s just designed to put you off making the request in the first place)
Why take a promotion and a pay rise from your boss for your hard work when you’ll end up paying more to the CSA
Why bother taking a second job to pay for the monthly bill when your tax return will be higher and you’ll end up paying more (catch 22)
They have the power to contact your employer and garnish your account without going in front of a judge for a court order!
They can stop you from leaving the country and have the federal police turn you back at the port of departure without a court order!
They can dip directly into your bank account once again without seeking permission from a judge!
Maybe this resonates with some of the Dads out there and I hope that things will get better in the future.
Our voices need to be heard and we need to stop being treated as second class citizens in a civilised western society.
I hope this article isn’t to unproductive but IT’S THE TRUTH..
LM
Thanks Andrew, I will call them, although after many years of dealing with this (with a psychopathic ex involved) I am traumatised by it all. I literally get nauseous and start shaking when I need to call CSA. It is causing a major mental health issues in our society. I thought having court orders for 50/50 shared care & time would be the solution, but all it did was cause parental alienation – fully backed up by CSA legislation. Its an absolute disgrace! So how do we change this? Who in parliament is the one who needs to make this change happen? During this election I haven’t heard a single word about Family Law matters. Andrew, thank you for all your hard work with this, its appreciated, as many of us are completely exhausted.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
No problem LM. Understand that it can be very hard to have a normal, friendly conversation with Child Support. Starting in a friendly tone and keeping it matter-of-fact is the way to go if possible.
One Nation called for a Review of the Family Law System last election. The review is finished but it got derailed by the Coalition Government, industry insiders, ineffectual bureaucrats, and a surprisingly inept Christian Porter. The “comprehensive” review by the Family Law Commission turned into another assault on the perceived value of fathers in the lives of children. See here: https://childsupportaustralia.com/family-law-system-review/
One Nation is calling for a Royal Commission into family law and child support. That will make a bunch of fat-cat lawyers wealthy but am skeptical about it’s value if the idea goes ahead. We already have policy and program prescriptions, which would produce a much simpler and more effective child support system, detailed here on this site. Don’t need a Royal Commission to start improving things dramatically.
LM
Hi, I pay an extra $5000 per year (over my standard CSA payments), which was ruled as being specific for 50% of the school fee’s. I have now found out that my ex hasn’t been paying any of the school fees with this money for 3 terms and the school is on the verge of cancelling the children’s enrollment. ( I have also been alienated from my children – I have zero contact).
What will happen if I report this to CSA.
My ex also recently reduced her income from $50K to NIL. (she quit her job) Will CSA now suggest I pay 100% of the school fee’s. (over my usual CSA)
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
I’d ring Child Support ASAP and talk to them about your options. Maybe have an initial conversation and ask them to call you back at a later time since this is fairly complex and they may need to look at your case in some detail. You shouldn’t have to pay for private-school fees that aren’t being lodged. You can’t be asked to pay more I wouldn’t think since your children’s schooling appears to just be in her control.
Tracy
Thank you for your reply. Yes i have always received that kind of treatment from CSA. It feels like i am the payer. So out of 17 years, the ex has paid 6 years of child support! LOL
And they cant backdate 6 weeks…. hahaha
He has always had 100% access whenever he wanted to see them for the one or two times per year!
So anyway, please humour me.
If i decide to waste my time with an appeal for the backdating. Please offer me some advice, some good reasons why they should backdate, would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
To be honest, I wouldn’t bother with it since you can’t make them backdate and I can’t think of any compelling reasons. Remember, increased current-year income usually only affects child support payments for the following financial year. So they are already doing you a favour in backdating to the day you applied for a COA.
Tracy
Hi
I left my ex 17 years ago. Our youngest is 17yrs old.
The ex has had wages garnished for approx. 6 years for child support on and off over the 17 years. Other than that there is zero support financially, emotionally or physically for his kids. Sad for the kids 🙁
He phones them once a month.
He started a job on 4th Oct 2018. In Sep he told my son he might have a job. So in Nov when the child support didnt increase, i called CSA. They said i need to fill out Change of Assessment form. I did that. It was finalised in March and changed the assessment. Now just waiting for CSA to garnish wages.
Anyway, CSA wont backdate to 4th Oct…. they will only backdate to 19th Nov when i lodged the form. Why is that? I had no idea it was on me to notify them. I dont know anything about the guy, i had no idea if he actually did start work or not in Oct.
I have put in a dispute to have it backdated to 4th Oct but the horrible CSA lady basically told me she will deny my dispute. Isnt it just common sense to backdate. It is just awful how my ex lives off his defacto to avoid paying for his children. Then gets a job, and here we are over 7 months later and hes still not paying.
Can i appeal when i receive the deny letter? What is my best avenue to go down to have this backdated by 6 weeks?
Thanks
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Ha ha – you’ve just experienced something that payers go through routinely, and often covering much longer periods. Backdating or not is almost always done in a way that disadvantages payers.
Many, many, many complaints have been made about the unfair ways Child Support does backdating. I suspect the “CSA lady” either (a) is following standard procedures or (b) is doing something discretionary that she/they have done many times before. Either way, unfortunately, it may be a waste of time to try to get justice.
Sorry but i can’t anymore!!
I pay child support, happily pay child support, i have t seen my child for 6 years(mother refuses and has moved to Melbourne), what frustrates me is she is a qualified teacher, has a partner, and DOES NOT WORK, which in turn doubles my payments, i have 2 other sons that live with me, and my partners son(his father passed away)and still my payments are high, when i questioned CSS, they told me the % is based on my earnings and her earnings, i have contacted everyone i could and i have done 3 assessments and still my payments are massive, we are struggling at home!! I have just got an increase at work due to a promotion i have worked my bum off for, i did the right thing to let CSS know my new income and not even a day later i get an email of the new assesment and increase!! What about my EX, she does nothing, no work, yet is qualified teacher, able to work(she has previously) and supported by her partner, yet my payments go up?? I work my butt off to support my family and it goes there, to someone that does not want to work!!i feel like quitting my job and just giving up, i feel like im supporting her and the child and we were not even living together!!! I am SOOO DEPRESSED, I AM READY TO GIVE UP!!
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Having unfair things done to you, such as not being able to see your child and having money taken from you regularly, with the involvement of a cold-hearted institution, is about the worst thing you can do to someone. It’s like a severe form of bullying; one that takes away hope. You probably have a primal need to take action and regain control but see no avenues available.
A key purpose of this site is to give people a sense of control so they are less likely to reach a point of despair.
I don’t need to tell you that you have important things to do. Giving up isn’t a real option. All you can do is be grateful for the things you have and to focus on what is under your control.
Leah Davey
My ex has not done a tax return in 10 years. How can he get away with that. He owns a business and house and cars and caravans. Claims estimate of 34000
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Not doing tax returns is an issue for the ATO. The income tax system is basically a trust system, with the outside possibility of an audit the key deterrent to cheating.
michael Bet
I have some queries on a response on a change of assessment application for 8A and 8B. 8A has been accepted as unfair and has been credited back to myself. My ex-partner, who now has full custody of my children, but there is evidence to say that she earnt money in a business she now said did not eventuate, which she gave away to another family member which she could have used to earn income. She has now reduced her income, even though she has been attending courses for the last three years. The ombudsman states that a person must attend a course with the intention to use this skill to earn an income after they complete the course. She is now saying she can’t work due to health reasons and gave away the business for this reason. She is now homeschooling the two children. She said she has not worked for sometimes is her response on 8 B which CSA is saying in the response letter has not been established by her response answers. How do I answer this response as it states that more evidence is needed for me appeal to this decision. I feel her response is lacking in solid evidence of her situation as is the reasons for her health issues been established. Im very confused in how this can be reponded too.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Am also confused. Child Support seem to be giving her the benefit of the doubt. Would have thought the onus would be on her to demonstrate a work-preventing medical problem – by seeing a health practitioner. Maybe you could point this out.
This kind of investigation would be made obsolete if our proposed new system were implemented. Recipient income would, as per the original scheme, have no impact on what a payer is required to contribute.
John
Thankyuo for such an informative site,
I currently have a 5 year old girl and 2 year old girl. My X wife and i divorced approx six months ago, seperated 1 and 1/2 years ago.
Custody has ranged from me 6 nights a fortnight and 50/50 during school holidays and now 5 nights a fortnight and 50/50 during school holidays.
She earns around 40-45k a year and i earn approx 98k a year.
I have a couple of questions..
Upon splitting up we amicably agreed on 50/50 split of 400k of assets and for her not to touch my super (married for six years) with no solicitor intervention.
Since splitting I have:
paid child support ranging from $250 to $280 per week.
At same time paid half towards school uniforms, shoes, and sport extra curricular activities.
Offered to pay half major dental (ie braces) should that be required in future.
Now that i have met someone tensions rise and she is going down the solicitor threat warpath like everyone else!
1) My X is proposing that we enter into a financial binding agreement. she is proposing that as part of this agreement:
a) I pay for 80% of private school fees when they enter high school.
b) I pay for half major dental (ie braces).
c) I sign to agree to ALWAYS pay half school uniform costs
d) I pay half extra curricular activity costs (ie soccer/ music).
c) Obviously continue child support…
If i argue at any point then she simply tells me to keep my mouth shut or she will go for my super and more than a 50/50 split of assets- this quickly shuts me up and she knows it..
Im not sure what to do, or what is fair/ typical as i am happy to stand firm on what is fair? I feel that so far i have met more than halfway but im unsure? I am happy to pay for half school uniforms and also sport activities as well as child support but i feel that any more than that is perhaps excessive?
Also, when she applied for child support she advised that i have the girls 5 nights a fortnight, but she didnt tell them that i have them half the time for the 11 week holiday per year- would this reduce child support costs if i advise this to child support?
I also had a wage drop recently, should i notify child support so payments are reduced or does this happen only at next tax time?
thanks so much,
John
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
John – what you deal you do, if any, is up to you and her. Can’t really comment on complex negotiations.
Care during school holidays can definitely be factored into calculations. See this video for info on how the care level affects payments.
You can report an income reduction to Child Support (including via my.gov.au). The drop in current-year income needs to be at least 15% across the financial year.
Bec
Though I am unsure if there is a solution to this particular issue, this is the first forum I have found where people are openly/tastefully discussing CSA problems.
My ex partner seems to have found a method which allows him to not pay the full child support amount for our child, and additionally allows him to avoid having his full tax return syphoned. The CSA’s response is simply, “it does effect your child’s assessment, but we are only a debt collection service”.
Firstly, my ex partner consistently remains a year behind in the tax return of his salary; secondly, every year he underestimates by $50,000 despite remaining in the same role/job – every year the ATO correct this amount though the CSA state that this pattern of 5years is not enough to object his estimates. Most amazingly however, is that he pays C/S to his defacto fiancé… they have falsely claimed since the birth of their first child, that they have been separated. This despite living, holidaying, socialising and planning a wedding together. Additionally this assessment has been updated twice to include the two additional children they have had since the initial claim.
This “method” not only has the effect (according to CSA) of decreasing the amount he should pay for mine/his child (75% of his child support income going to his fiancé), it also ensures that 75% of syphoned tax return ends up back in his pocket.
I hope one day there will be a reform of the CSA, for the benefit of those wanting the best for their children. I wish you luck
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Bec – very cunning behaviour by your ex and I’m a little surprised Child Support have allowed him to get away with it. Of course, none of it would be possible if our better, simpler system were in place.
Civil action may be possible but would be a hassle and costly but would need to have lawyers involved. Note that they may be giving up Family Tax Benefit money in order to dodge child support and may not be much better off financially. That makes what he is doing even worse from a moral standpoint.
I’d suggest initiating a Change of Assessment – Reason 8 (Earning Capacity). This would force the financial arrangements to be properly looked at if Child Support accept the application. You could claim that the child support he pays to his partner is actually a “fraudulent, within-household transfer” and represents income that should be available to support your child. That should form a strong rationale to compel Child Support to do a review.
Kylie
Hi, I am the paying parent even thought I have primary care of the children. We have a 65/35 arrangement for care of the children. There has been all sorts of trouble from him and includes several FVIO’s and the fact that he doesn’t want to work – so went out & bought a franchise…his income & earning capacity (considering his experience & skills) has dropped from $100k to the last FY where he claimed a taxable income of just under $9k. CS did accept my COA and increased his income to $50k (as per the min income for a ‘garden laborer’) – however I still pay $500 per month in CS plus $200 per month in arrears as the CSA took 5 months to review their decision!
He also refuses to pay for such things as school fees, uniforms and out of pocket medical expenses (I maintain family heath insurance for the children) as well as AGREED extra curricular activities. So, I am effectively double dipping – but what choice do I have? I won’t deny what my children need and if I refuse to pay CS they’ll just garnish my wages anyway…I have worked long and hard for 30 years, including 8 years of full time Uni studies whilst working full time hours, to get to where I am with my career and how I (thought) I’d set up the family to be financially secure – I was completely blind sighted by my ex’s gambling problem in the end as I left a DV marriage. To keep the family home (of which was paid for with the sale of my property) I had to spend almost $40k on legal fees as he refused to agree to anything I offered (in the end the judge gave him less than I offered anyway – but the legal cost damage was done). I had to sell the family home and downsize the mortgage (which took a significant battering due to his gambling) to afford CS payments whilst he has gone on overseas trips, works as little as possible (and does off book jobs) and clearly lives above his stated means – even with his DVA pension (former military). In the 2016/17 FY year he very quickly agreed to have the CS set at $0 rather than produce any form of evidence of projected business income for the ESTABLISHED business he purchased…and I will note that he lived very comfortably between the 2017 and 2018 FY with $0 CS…
The CSA simply state that even though a parent may appear to be living beyond their financial means this doesn’t mean that they are earning more than they state – it could simply be that they are living off credit cards or people are “giving them money” (pffft!!).
Will you be looking into how CS takes into account self employed ‘off book’/cash in hand issues – CSA currently say they have no control over that and can only take into consideration what is “declared income”. I have gone through many COA’s and currently have an application in with the AAT – whilst I have had to supply copious amounts of paperwork and financial evidence of what I earn and spend – CSA have simply allowed my ex to remain silent as he chooses to ‘not respond’. I believe that payees should be compelled to respond and provide evidence of how they are managing to live when declaring such low taxable incomes (i.e. well below minimum wage & even centrelink minimum payments!!) – all the while maintaining their own homes, not living as though they on the poverty line, going on overseas trips etc…
I for one would love to see a full overhaul of the CS system!
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Kylie – It’s amazing the lengths some payers will go to avoid their obligations. Our approach to deal with these types of avoidance is to use standard / benchmark income levels for payers attempting to manipulate income. Using average male earnings, the income level would be roughly $75-$80k per annum. Anything dodgy and payers would be moved up to this standard income level. Having a simple benchmark income would allow cases like yours to be quickly and easily dealt with, so the kids get reasonable support.
GM
HI Andrew
Firstly thank you for your lateral thinking and your explanation with all things Child Support.
Little bit about me and my CSA issues, I have been separated and divorced for over 10 years. I have no outstanding child support payments and pay monthly on time, every time.
Over the last few years I have completed some extra training and qualifications and have a good full time FIFO role with a Mining Company (always been employed full time). Fortunately that has seen my wage raise but the down side is naturally my child support increases. What makes this ever increasingly frustrating is that my ex over the last few years slowly backed off from her employment from a full time role paying 45k to part time 31k and her last payment summary was as a self-employed “Cleaner” that earnt 12k for the financial year . During the last 3 years her father (divorced as well) passed away and left the 3 siblings 3 houses ,a property all mortgage free , shares and superannuation (confirmed). Since his passing she has moved into one of the houses and the other 2 are being rented, how the rental income for these properties is being managed I am unsure of. I cannot confirm but I am presuming there would have been a trust fund for kids as he was a wealthy man. Naturally I tried for a COA (change of assessment) but it was rejected. When I questioned the reasons the CSA informed me that the house my ex had moved into required some work (totally incorrect as the house in brand new). When I questioned how did they know that, did they visit the home or has a CSA representative attend the property, CSA replied that she had called my ex and asked her about the house and my ex had told her she needed to do some work on it and also she was just starting her own business to spend more time with the children.
Obviously I was blown away from the so called “investigation”.
I am not afraid of paying child support and I provide for everything when the children are in my care, and I mean everything as our orders have items like Sporting equipment, prescription glasses, medical items and school uniforms. (Yes I got ripped but it’s for the kids).
I have placed my circumstances in your calculator and it makes a lot more sense than the CSA formula as I am only paying for the days they are spending with their mother when they should be in my care based on a 50/50 split. I have the 3 children every second weekend (the 2 eldest come and go as they please) from the Thursday to the Sunday (3 nights a fortnight)
The family law court process is absolutely shocking and is placing extra strain on the “family” the bias towards men is appalling and even my wife (remarried to a wonderful lady) has troubles understanding some decisions awarded to the women.
I would like your feedback about my situation and any advice would be appreciated.
GM
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Thanks for your contribution GM and support for the new, logical formula.
It would be a totally different story if you, as the payer, were the one who reduced their income deliberately and had a large pool of assets that weren’t being used to provide for the children. They expect payers to maximise income always and sell off major assets that aren’t producing income.
Unfortunately, Child Support have significant latitude in how they apply the legislation, and know how to push the boundaries as well. I’m not sure that you have much potential for success by trying further. But you always have the option to appeal against any decision.
I actually don’t think recipient income should be a factor in child support, nor assets. You can have an effective, workable system without such complexities (which also create perverse disincentives). But, as you’ve indicated, your situation means you are probably paying well over the odds in terms of what’s fair.
Child Support have the scope to intervene in your case if they wanted to but are choosing not to. I wouldn’t worry about the specific excuses. They are unwilling to admit the truth. They are not interested in pursuing your case because you are a payer.
Eric
Hi Andrew
I share 50:50 custody of my young daughter with her mother. We both earn reasonable salaries myself 140K the mother 80K. After financial settlement (50/50), the mother has reduced her work hours by choice which increases the cost of my CSA payments.
The amount I pay more than covers the costs of a preschool child. This system is broken.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Correct Eric. It’s ridiculous that you have to pay truckloads in child support when you have 50:50 care. You can just buy things for your daughter out of your own pocket. Why the need to funnel money to your daughter via your ex?
Our system would eliminate child support for 50:50 care.
I don’t understand how this can happen!?
My ex husband has always worked. He used to earn about $160,000 – $140,000 per year. We share custody 50/50. He eventually started paying child support when it was garnished from his wage directly. I have a minimum wage job now and have found getting decent employment hard after being a stay at home Mum while we were married. I did work as a Registered Nurse for over 10 years prior to having children. I never thought I would end up separating. I ended up in a DV marriage?. I can’t get work as a Registered Nurse now as I’ve been unregistered too long and there is no refresher course like there used too be. I’d have to do my 3 years at uni again!!!
My ex husband quit his job a month or so ago saying he was sick of working and wanted a break. He still pays his mortgage, takes our 3 children on lavish outings and is taking himself on an overseas holiday next month to the USA.
Because he is no longer working he has filed for child support against me. I’m on minimum wage….half of my pay goes on rent and everything else goes on bills, food etc.
I don’t have the ability to take our children on lavish outings or go on an overseas holiday like him!
I’m now being told I have to pay him $150 child support a fortnight. I won’t be able to make ends meet!….. yet he is going to buy a new car, go overseas on a holiday etc etc
How can that be fair!?!
I’m going to have to pack up and move back in with my family until I can find higher paying employment.
I’m so stressed.
What can I do?
He is choosing not to work saying he’s over the whole work thing. He has savings hidden in accounts in our children’s names and with his family. He also does air conditioning installations for cash or through his cousin’s business and declares non of that money.
He’s living a lavish lifestyle compared to me yet I’m about to lose my home because I can’t afford the rent anymore.
Please help ?
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
You can apply for a Change of Assessment – Reason 8 (Earning Capacity). Child Support will review both your financial affairs. They may put his income back to its former level for child support purposes. Evidence that he didn’t have a legitimate reason for stopping work is valuable.
KyleB
Hello, I am a father to 4 children and my ex won’t allow me to see the children which breaks my heart. I am paying a high amount for Child Support because I work long hours FIFO. The second eldest has now turned 18years and I am still paying due to the child apparently still being in school (exactly what happened with the eldest) I doubt this is the case. Apparently she doesn’t even have to prove that are at school to get the payments. I have been told that the only way to dispute this is to call the school to confirm but then the CSA won’t tell me what school they are going to due to a breach in privacy. Can they not just ask her to prove it?(There is no, or never has been a restraining order in place) I don’t understand what I can do, do you have any ideas?
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
What an unfair situation Kyle. Child Support are geared just to maximise payments. They never seem to think, “Gee, we could just do this one simple thing and make things fair for the payer”. Totally mindless attitude.
Of course, they should ask her for evidence of attendance or contact the school themselves. Perhaps they have such evidence but aren’t telling you.
Can only suggest that you be nice to Child Support and try to convince them to ask her for the enrollment approval documentation that she or your child would have received. Otherwise, you’ll somehow need to get some evidence to give to Child Support indicating that your child isn’t attending school.
June Drysdale
Hi
I am a grandparent carer on a retirement pension. My granddaughter’s father pays me child support. Her mother is dead.
I applied for change of assessment for special needs because she needed braces at a cost of $7,500 and he refused my request to pay. I felt that it was a lot for me to take on, on my limited income. I had to get the treatment started and send the receipt to CSA before they would accept my application, so I had to pay a sum upfront and commit to a monthly payment plan for two years.
I was granted the change of assessment, and the father was ordered to pay, but he objected and the first decision was overturned, so I am left to continue the payments.
The decision maker for the father’s objection did not phone me to discuss it or ask about my personal circumstances or any other matters. As a third party carer I was not required to declare my income when I filled out the change of assessment form, so he did not know my circumstances. He did send me a letter informing me of the objection (with no signature), but that was all.
When he called to tell me of his decision, he said that the amount of child support the father already paid was intended to cover expenses like braces, extra curricula activities, driving lessons (granddaughter is 16 and on her Ls). He said that all of these things were discretionary and I could say no, as he did with his children. He said that because her father was paying all of the child support himself, it was unreasonable to expect him to pay for braces and I would need to take on that expense myself. He sounded biased and had an accent consistent with a culture in which traditionally men come out on top. How can two decision makers have two such different outcomes? Don’t they have rules to follow?
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
In these circumstances, the dental evidence should really be the deciding factor. For your claim for the costs of braces to be upheld, you needed to demonstrate “special needs”. The decision makers appear to have formed different opinions from the same evidence. But “special needs” is not defined precisely, so that is not an issue by itself. Maybe it is just a line-ball decision. I’d be guessing that whatever dental evidence was provided indicated that braces were recommended but not essential. You can apply to the Administrative Appeals Tribunal, though that would be time-consuming and they may be reluctant to change the decision without strong countervailing evidence.
Danni
Hi. Ive recently had my centrelink payments severely reduced. I rang them and was told to ring child support as the issue was with them. I was informed by child support that they made a mistake going off old information and that my case has to be completely rebuilt and it would take a couple of weeks. 3 weeks later ive lost even more money and have called child support again to be told that my case has been escalated and is still pending but the lady i spoke to said she reminded them its urgent. But still no information on how long it will take? Is there anything else I can do? Before this puts me in serious debt as i cant afford to pay rent this fortnight as it is
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Don’t know really. They seem to be trying. Maybe have a go at working so you can build some savings and not rely so much on welfare?
Father discloses no income.
My daughter’s father lives in the Uk and has, from the day she was born, said he is not able to obtain a job. His father pays him a monthly allowance and provides him with a place to live and a car. He goes to the gym and has a phone and comes across as living a privileged life. It is my understanding that my daughter’s father has no assets in his name. However, when I do a search on uk websites, I can see he is a director and shareholder of “dormant” companies, presumably these companies are trustee companies that trade but I have no proof. I suspect my daughters father arranges his affairs so that the trusts distribute money to his own father who then in turn supports him, hence my daughter’s father has no income. What I have never understood is why he can go on overseas holidays, apparently paid for by relatives, yet I struggle to put food on the table and work long hours. How is it possible he earns no income! He is a qualified lawyer and speaks 7 languages. How can this situation be rectified?
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Not sure about the rules around payers who are overseas. Normally, you can apply for a Change of Assessment – Reason 8 (Earning Capacity) and Child Support will endeavour to look into all his financial affairs. They may find that difficult to do with him being overseas.
Under our new proposed system, this case would be easy to handle and justice would be quickly served. An income benchmark would apply in cases where payers are not cooperating.
As it is under the pathetic system that exists currently, Child Support don’t do anything except try to establish an exact historical or current income. They become completely lost when they’re unable to do that and end up doing nothing. Hopeless as usual.
You may need to do some research on who is responsible for manually assessing income for Australian child support when the payer is in the UK (i.e. is it Australia or the UK people?). Either way, it may be tough to get a good outcome.
Annette
Hi
My brother in law has almost 100% care of his teenager and 50% care of his young child and is in mediation talks with his ex but he says that CSA is currently taking 90% of his wage prior to his employer banking it every fortnight. He claims that he is receiving calls on weekends (even last Sunday) from CSA staff saying that he is in arrears but they never confirm anything in writing. Not even that they take money out of his pay. How is this even fair? How can he be expected to pay his rent and bills and put food on the table for his children when they are taking over $700 and leaving him with less than $150 to live on?
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Child Support do some very unfair things at times, including driving parents into bankruptcy. However, the information you’ve provided is incomplete and doesn’t look right. Child Support send out letters routinely, and case and payment information is at least available online at my.gov.au Suggest you find out exactly what is going on.
Donna Jones
My husbands repayments are very minimal while not working. Child support are the ones that said I had to pay his amount, there is a dept of $70 as he didn’t contact them straight away. But I have been told previously by child support myself when my husband gave me permission to speak to them, that I Have to pay his child support when he is not working. I just want to know why child support are insisting I pay his amount. He doesn’t collect Centrelink when unemployed as it is pointless going through all the crap with them for such a minimal amount. He has told them he is not collecting benefits. I am not paying his child support unless they can show me in black and white that I am required to do so. It is very frustrating because his ex has lied to the system for years and collected more that she is entitled to, the final step for me was when she said one of the children was living with her and she wasn’t. The ex moved interstate against a court order, left the older one in this state to complete year 12 living with a friend from school, but was still collecting all monies. I ended up ringing and reporting her as defrauding child support. Firstly the person on the other end of the phone said my husband should be speaking to them, I said I am reporting a fraud and it is my right to do so as she is claiming for a child not living with her, and I assumed all the Centrelink benefits also. Eventually we recieved a credit for the overpayment. But until they can show me the documentation I am not paying it, and the fact that he is not earning and income there is nowhere for the money to come from.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
As I’ve indicated previously, your husband’s case involves you only as far as you want to help him pay. The message from Child Support seems to be that they don’t care how he gets the money – including getting it from you – as long as he makes payments. That seems fair enough given he’s on minimum payments.
It seems that you have the option of (a) getting the money together to make the payments or (b) letting the debt carry on and build up (with fees included) while also getting hassled by Child Support. It’s you and your husband’s decision about what you do. As indicated previously, I don’t see the point of you contacting Child Support or complaining that you’re having to pay for your husband’s debts. You’re being asked to pay because your husband is not doing great as an income-earner right now and hasn’t saved anything. That seems to be the underlying problem.
simon
how can csa take money from a parent if the contract by csa wasn’t signed nor did either parent get legal advice on the matter. my ex signed onto Centrelink single parent pension and got FTB A&B and at the same time they signed her up to claim child support from me and I have been paying csa for over 10 years but did not sign a contract. is that lawful for one on csa’s part and wouldn’t that be classed as fraud and theft without a contract. how do I find out if their is proof of a contract and b: if their isn’t one what are my options. please resond to email address provided thank you.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
You don’t have to apply to pay income tax. Same principle here. Don’t know what your ex did but it seems she applied for child support. That’s enough for both of you to join the system.
Donna Jones
I have a question about child support. My husband is unemployed at the moment and I am supporting us both on my retail wage, it is a massive struggle. Child support have been told that he is not working and not receiving any benefits as we are living on my wage. He has been told that I have to now pay his child support. I would like to know where it is written that if he is not receiving any income I am responsible for his payments. This annoys me a lot as we have been to court a few times and the mother does not follow court agreements, she up and moved interstate and the courts allowed her to do so even though the court order said she could not. So I am extremely angry that they now say I have to pay child support when we are struggling to survive on my small wage. Any help would be appreciated as I am going to call child support in regards to this and would like to know my facts before I make the call.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Donna – Your husband’s required payments should be very low while he’s unemployed. I’m assuming you’re mainly talking about debt.
Child Support are merely trying to get the money paid. It’s a bit of a negotiation since they have the option of removing late-payment fees if he agrees to some sort of repayment plan.
Why would you call Child Support? I don’t really see how it could be helpful.
He shouldn’t be talking about your income with them. Nothing to do with you. He should simply be saying that his wife is unable to help him make payments and leave it at that. They may be confused as to how he can live off you but can’t repay debt. That’s probably the issue – they are suspicious of how he is maintaining himself.
But, it seems to me, that your income is only an issue because he is allowing it to be one. Child Support generally don’t care about the incomes of partners as it’s not part of the legislation. He should be able to easily shut down any talk about how your income is used.
MJ
Thanks for your reply Andrew,
So what steps are you taking to introduce your new formula to the child support system? And what steps can people like myself take to help the process along?
MJ.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
MJ – Am letting momentum build and waiting for the right time to really push things along. After the Federal election may be easier since the issue won’t be picked up now. Will also have a bigger platform after my company launches co-parenting timetable software later in the year (beta, shell version at timtab.com. Note that the forms and everything else aren’t operational yet since developing offsite).
Contributing to this forum is helpful. Also, if you get the chance, mention to others that there is a new, workable child support system shown on this site. There are lots of people running around calling for change. But, frankly, many are sucking up oxygen in this space without pointing to solutions that could actually be implemented. Have only had limited help from other groups and lectures about political correctness, which has been disappointing. Their various proposals have no chance to be frank, mainly because they don’t have experience in real policy development within government. There are many things to balance.
Nicolas Hook
Hi, I am facing a horrendous outcome for a child support challenge for a change of assessment. Does anyone have feedback on
1. the best way to object, i have the forms, but what is the strategy?
2. how to apply and successfully get my case manager changed, who is obviously biased?
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Maybe try to be objective and stick to the facts. Frankly, your question is emotive, unclear and lacking essential information. And trying to get your case manager changed seems like a counterproductive waste of time. Case managers are only interested in facts relevant to the case and they all follow the same sorts of procedures.
While child support can be a hot issue for many, and a source of injustice, it’s generally good policy to deal with it in a calm, rational way and to treat officers with courtesy. More easily said than done in many cases admittedly.
KW
I am seeking advice for someone else that I know. There is an order in place for how often this dad sees his daughter, however they have now decided that she doesnt want to see him anymore so doesnt come down. They notified CSA that the dad now has no contact so payments have gone through the roof. The order was mentioned but CSA said they dont take orders into consideration and the dad would have to go through court (which he doesnt have the money for)
The ex wife has now said that her, her husband and kids are moving somewhere else, which is 550km away from the dad, so there is definately no way the dad can see the child now. What I am asking is why should the dad have to pay a rediculous amount of child support when there is an order in place and he is willing to see the daughter, she just wont come down. The dad also has 2 other dependant children and is struggling with money as it is.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Illegal parental alienation in order to extract more child support has skyrocketed since the “reforms” of just over a decade ago. In their infinite wisdom, the Government decided the priority was for recipients to get extra child support – ahead of the principle that court orders must be respected and followed. That’s why the Department of Human Services ignores parenting orders handed down by the Federal Circuit Court or Family Court.
This flaw in the system is perhaps the worst there is. It separates parents from children. The only option for payers is aggressive court action, which can be prohibitively expensive if one is not confident in representing oneself.
J
how is the system fair when one party can estimate a zero income and force the other to pay an inflated child support amount, and then not do taxes for years. This means that the paying party builds up a debt or pays excess until CSA look at the tax returns, but if they are never done, then the paying party just keeps getting slammed. Its a terrible system, and people getting child support should be required by law to do their tax returns on time every year or not get child support until its done. And accepting a zero figure when someone has worked the last 9 months is ridiculous. The child support system needs to changed and made fairer. I can understand why so many men want to end their lives dealing with all of this crap, and never even being allowed to see their kids. its a disgrace!
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
The current system rewards bad behaviour, to the detriment of children and great frustration of parents such as yourself. Many of the “reforms” of a decade or so were actually counterproductive, including linking child support to the incomes of recipients.
We would fix the problem of not reporting income by (i) removing recipient income from the equation and (ii) introducing an income benchmark to be applied in cases of non-compliance. These fixes would be far simpler than the current system, save hundreds of millions in admin costs, and would produce better outcomes for children. Happy to debate anyone from the government who wants to challenge our claims on this. See the homepage for details.
Giles
Andrew, thank you, that is exactly what I needed to know. Both cases are open, we each received letters showing the recommended change, allowing time for other parties to appeal. My wife however spoke to them yesterday, and the rep stated they are the decision maker, and that they cannot look at other cases, with letter being sent confirming the opposite of the recommended position. It appears appealing thedecision is needed, your suggested action can only assist.
Again, my thanks for your assistance.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
You’re welcome.
Giles
Hi Andrew,
Thanks for your response on March 4th. I hit the reply next to your response which didn’t seem to work.
Regardless, I expected as much in so far as not being able to do any further to have ATO look into failure to lodge.
However, the CSA review I mentioned resulted in letters ‘recommending’ that all business income is to be treated for my CSA case, with my wife to have no income assessed (as all her income comes from my business). Had no issues with this outcome.
However, the “decision maker” has now notified that they do not care what was recommended, that they will assess my wife’s income on tax returns, and they will assess my income on total business income (including what my wife receives). They do not care that they are counting the same income twice, and now refuse to discuss separate cases. As a result, I will have to pay a substantially larger amount of child support, and my wife will receive nothing. Quite simply, we will now have to look at selling our house as we will not be able to keep up with the new payments.
It is mind boggling that they can do this and assess income twice. Is there anything that can be done?
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Giles – an unfortunate situation. I assume the CSA reviewer has a legal background because lawyers seem to be really into double-counting. Either way, they’re doing the normal Child Support thing and ignoring accounting principles.
Something you could try is submitting a document to the reviewer (which might require you to appeal at a higher level if this process is closed) notifying them in very clear terms that their treatment of your wife’s income is inconsistent, violates basic accounting practices, and constitutes a willful mistake and, in particular, a “willful procedural error” that you will seek to appeal if it’s maintained. You could implore them to make their assessments in such a way that your wife’s income is attributed to her or to you, but not both of you so as to constitute a clear case of a deliberate and avoidable accounting error.
Legally, you can appeal against child support decisions where there is an “error of law” (which has a specific, narrow meaning that’s hard to explain). Therefore, you may want to create a foundation where Child Support will be concerned that they’re about to commit an error of law. Knowingly treating income in an inconsistent way across highly inter-related cases might qualify. However, it’s possible that they’ve done this many times before and always gotten away with it, meaning it may be difficult to get justice.
MJ
Hi,
I currently have equal custody of my children, week on/week off. My ex-wife refuses to share ANY of my children’s clothes or personal items and therefor I am basically paying twice for my children. I had to fight for the equal custody arrangement costing close to $10,000 and as a result had to sell my house and move 50 minutes away which incurs ongoing costs of extra fuel and travel time.
She has recently had a baby with her new partner and is now on maternity leave but will be going back to work in a month. My children have stated that she intends to only work 2 days a week as she can’t afford child care, and her partner only works sporadically as well. I am concerned that this is going to drastically effect my child support assessment and cause it to nearly double. I am struggling to pay bills and still afford to supply my children with clothes etc as well as activities.
In the property settlement I made sure that my ex-wife got a far cheaper mortgage than I did so that she could afford to keep her house, and since then her partner has moved in with her so she has a double income house while I still only have one.
In the current system, after tax and other expenses I only earn around $12000 a year more than her, minus child support of around $3500 so on paper it appears that my income is far greater than hers but in reality it is not. I fail to see why I should have to pay more in child support on the basis that she has had another child with a third party, and furthermore is she allowed to refuse work on the basis that child care is too expensive, and therefor increasing my child support assessment? It appears as though she is happy for me to have my child support increased to support her, her baby and her partner.
Don’t get me wrong, I am happy to support my children and have always done, including paying their private health outside of my CSA. I AM NOT A DEADBEAT DAD. But I have real concerns about my ability to survive if this is going to be allowed to happen. Child care is her responsibility as is her new baby, not mine. I am considering an appeal already on the basis that my assessment is not equitable, and especially if the expected situation occurs.
Can you shed some light on why the system operates this way and what can be done to prevent this kind of thing from happening?
With all due respect, there are hundreds of posts on here, with a statement at the beginning that this will help to change the system, but from what I can see nothing has changed or will change.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Under the current system, separated parents are treated like a married couple. That’s why you have to pay for her decisions to have more children and stay at home. I don’t like your chances of winning an appeal, especially because Child Support take no issue with mothers staying at home to look after young children (which is reasonable in itself).
Our design of the system is based on individual responsibility and would stop all that nonsense, which is ultimately harmful for children because it encourages separated parents, both payers and receivers, to do the wrong thing.
The best hope for a change in the system is actually this blog, coupled with some political leadership. I used to work at the heart of the Commonwealth Government and know exactly how the reform process works (short of attending Cabinet meetings). We’ve already created a better system and this thread is helping to show how it almost always works better than what’s there at the moment. We’ve done the hard policy work that the Department of Human Services staff appear incapable of.
But, like you, I’m not holding my breath expecting reform implementation to happen at any moment. This is especially knowing that there are armies of lawyers, blinkered activists, slow-moving bureaucrats and industry insiders at the ready to stop any real progress.
Tony
I like the idea on the formula change you are suggesting.
I have paid around $200K in Child Support to an ex partner that apparently earns $12K a year but lives in a house that rents for $600 a week. The ex works in a cash driven industry and I have essentially no avenues to “prove” how much income the other party earns. I have done 50/50 care for 14 years. Child Support only listens to the tax office, and the tax office doesn’t care about these things, therefore you end up stuck paying outrageous amounts of child support to a household that is doing much much better than mine.
Anyways here is the question 1, if the other party has a new baby, their income drops due to that, why do I have to pay more money? Isn’t that in effect meaning I am paying for someone else’s child? Can you outline what the thinking is?
Question 2 (I am greedy). CSA says they dont know where the other party lives, or who they work for. I am in the final year of payments and I don’t want to overpay because CSA will never return the money to me. Is there an argument I can use to go into debit because of this?
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Thanks for your support for the improved formula Tony.
When the other parent has a child, they receive more child support (or pay less) because they’re considered to have higher self-support expenses. Payments won’t change, however, if they’re already earning less than the self-support amount (which starts at about $25,000).
I agree that you shouldn’t have to pay for the other parent’s new children. You’re not a couple anymore and any new children have their own set of parents. It wouldn’t happen under the proposed new formula, primarily because payments are more reasonable to start with and so you don’t need such adjustments.
On your other question, I’d say that you can’t expect Child Support to anticipate a revision in the other parent’s current income. They can’t operate based on what-ifs.
Jay
So I pay child support, for things like child care, now my case manager believes I should pay child support and for child care, this is double dipping. This kind of absurdity is noted on your own web page as not the done thing. And made up an income which I dont even come close to making! Fraud is all I can say, you’ll be getting an appeal.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
With respect to paid childcare services, normally the person who should be paying is the parent responsible for the care of the child during the relevant hours. That’s the parent who has chosen to put the child in care (rather than having them at home or elsewhere) or who, at least, is choosing to maintain such an arrangement.
Alli
Hi,
My partner has children from a past marriage. While he has 50/50 custody, his ex wife refuses to give him visitation. Therefore, he is paying 100% – $1150 per fortnight. We are thinking of having a baby of our own. My partner would be the stay at home dad as I have recently been promoted. How does that work with child support? Will he still have to pay as much as he does now as he won’t be working for approximately a year. Thank you.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Support payments are normally based on the parents’ taxable incomes in the previous financial year. But if a parent’s income drops significantly (by more than 15% across the financial year), they can submit a current income estimate. It’s quite straightforward and would reduce your partner’s payments.
https://www.humanservices.gov.au/individuals/enablers/how-your-income-affects-your-child-support/27966
When a parent’s income drops, the other parent can apply for a Change of Assessment (Reason 8 – Earning Capacity) and seek to have the income level restored. Child Support will only change the income level if (i) they believe the income change was partly for the purposes of affecting child support and (ii) if the income drop isn’t justified by things such as involuntary unemployment and parenting responsibilities. In your case, one would hope that the other parent wouldn’t apply for a change of assessment and, even if they did, that Child Support would find in your favour and stick with your partner’s income estimate.
JB
Hello
Just wondering if we have a leg to stand on… my husband pays regularly vis direct credit and also pays for others expenses when asked like school fees etc. He earns well and works hard. But if the “ex” wants more and questions the reason she holds over him the fact then she will go through child support which will mean a ridiculous amount of extra money. He already pays her well and we always provide. But she is getting very greedy and she also earns well. She also claims FTB and I’m not sure she shows correct amount we pay her direct. Can my husband say no to CSA if she wants to go through them to collect as he has done nothing wrong? Also can he show them the amounts and why she still claims FTB. She would be on more than us put together!!!! (She works for Centrelink and knows exactly what she is doing) thankyou in advance for your help.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
She can start claiming child support any time. It’s irrelevant what he’s done or thinks. The worst time for her to do this would be just after he’s made a large payment.
Looks like you’re saving money as a couple by her not applying for child support. Surely, that’s a financial bonus you should be grateful for.
RA
Hi there,
I just received a call regarding an outstanding amount I currently have with the CSA.
The girl introduced herself and informed me that see was calling me regarding the outstanding amount and my capacity to pay the amount in full. She acknowledged that I had a payment plan in place which I entered into April 2018 and that I had met all my requires however since it had been referred she need to call. She then informed me that if I paid it in full the penalty of approximately $1300 would be removed and the amount outstanding would be 14.2k. After informing her that I had no capacity to pay the entire debit she advised me that there would be an investigation into my assets.
My question is this….When is an agreement not an agreement?
I entered a payment agreement with CSA in March 2018 that commenced in April 18. The amount discussed was agreed by both parties. I was informed that if I failed to meet the payments the CSA would look at other means to recover the debit and that penalties would be reinstated. I agreed and set automatic payments. I never missed a payment and in the month of May paid an additional 2k. Again this was acknowledged on the call today.
What am I missing here
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
You’re right RA, a deal is a deal. They seem to have made a mistake here. However, because the person ringing you wasn’t thinking along those lines when she called, she didn’t respond in the manner you expected or that she should have.
I’d suggest ringing them or organising them to ring you. Explain as simply and politely as possible that a deal was made to repay the debt and you’re more than living up to your part of the agreement. Also explain that the terms were defined the way they were because that was, and still is, all you could reasonably afford. If you have documentation, refer them to it. Give them every opportunity to see your side of things and to rectify the matter without them losing face.
Ridealong
I am typing on behalf of my partner he has a 12 year old boy and didn’t know until he was 6 months old he had a son. He has done a perternity test and he is the father. He has seen him twice in 12 years as he lives in another state and the mother won’t let him see the son. We understand we have to pay something and have asked if we pay what they are saying which is a huge amount will they drop the $10000 debt owing as it’s killing us each week finically. CSA say only the mother can phone csa and request that the debt can be wiped and she won’t do this. She claims to be a single mother staying at home as she has other young kids by another father. The 12 year old goes to private boarding school and she owns her own farm and earns well but as she has put it in her parents name she says she earns nothing and grandparents pay for boarding school. The child in there Sunday night at school until Friday night.
Is there anything we can do as he has another child who he sees and pays weekly child support but so unfair he can’t see his son but has to pay. We can’t aggord to go to court.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
It appears that there’s little you can do. Child Support don’t go around forgiving debts just because payers are unhappy with the situation.
What the mother does doesn’t really matter. You’re paying a lot relative to your partner’s income because he has 0% care.
Joe
Hi i would like some clarification around the current child support system. Up until mid 2018 i use to have my kids every second weekend. My ex wife owed me some child support from previous years as i had one of our kids in my care. DHS was chasing her for the money and finally had it deducted from her pay. Because of what DHS did, she stopped me from seeing my kids every fortnight. Then at the start of this yr she tells DHS that i didnt have care of my kids from mid 2018., when she is the one who stopped me from seeing them. Now DHS is re assessing based on her words and says that i need to pay from mid 2018, til now. I had 25% care and now because of my ex wife claiming 100% care, my CS had doubled which i think is unfair, my ex wife is on a higher income than me. The frustrating thing is i pay for a lot of things for my kids which DHS dont take into account, they say my ex has to agree to it. DHS made a mess of the situation and take no responsibility and now im asking to pay higher CS and also back payment.
What can i do?
Who can i complain to or what action can i take?
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Unfortunately, Child Support are only interested in what the actual care level is, even if it’s a result of one parent willfully choosing to dominate care in order to extract more money.
If you’re paying child support based on her having 100% care, you’re not morally obliged to pay for anything else out of your own pocket.
This is ultimately a parenting matter however. The first option is mediation, potentially followed by an initiating application to the Federal Circuit Court for parenting orders. You could start mediation and use whatever leverage you have to get her agree to provide access. For court, it wouldn’t look good that you’ve waited more than several months to formally try to see your children regularly.
Ade
Hi Andrew
Quick question, CSA has me down as having our son 51 nights a year. This current period from July 2018-October 2019, he has already stayed a total of 58 nights, so i can see this moving into the next bracket, being regular care, 52-127 nights. What do i need to provide the CSA as proof, and what do i need to do to have this changed ?
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
You could start by just informing Child Support of the care %. They may not require evidence unless the other parent disputes the care level.
But you should be careful in claiming a care amount just above the threshold because the other parent may respond by reducing access.
Leonard Michael
I received a CSA application in 2010 which was rejected as there was no proof that I was the father.
I then received another CSA application in December 2018 which was rejected for the same reason that there was no proof. I have just received a court order DNA test for a 13 year old child. If this proves to confirm parentage, can the CSA backdate payments to the original 2010 child support application? Or the child’s birthdate?
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
The date when an application for child support is made is normally as far back as backdating can happen.
In your case, the older applications may no longer be relevant since she only had 56 days from receiving the notice of refusal to accept to apply for a paternity testing order. She also didn’t seek a time extension to apply. My guess is that only the date of the most recent application is relevant.
http://guides.dss.gov.au/child-support-guide/4/3/2
808Elliott
Hi Dr Lancaster,
I’ve received two child support applications against me, one in January and one in September. Both were rejected as there was no proof of paternity.
I barely know the woman as I cut ties quickly due to her aggression and instability. I haven’t heard or seen her in 8 years and it seems she can just keep applying against me as many times as she wants. She doesn’t appeal the rejections and I haven’t been sent to court for a DNA test. There is a slim chance I’m the bio dad but I don’t know when she fell pregnant. Can she just keep sending applications over and over again? It seems like madness. Does it ever just get blocked if you keep unsuccessfully applying against the same person?
Thanks for your help mate
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
I can’t see why she would keep applying if her applications keep getting rejected.
Don’t you want to know if the child is yours? I would ask for a DNA sample from the child so that you can check for yourself. If you are the father, don’t agree to release the results of the paternity test until she has agreed to a binding parenting plan that includes access for you, as well as limits on how much child support you may be liable for.
Jody Stokes
You have lots of informative advice here but you really should change your terminology to reflect Receiving Parent (RP) and Paying Parent (PP). That way it doesn’t matter what your gender is, if you are the PP – you’re screwed whether you have a male appendage or not.
By the way I am a mum PAying my ex husband despite 50/50 care and my being in a hardship situation. The AU gov’t is nothing short of a circus who suck every last cent out of hardworking parents who play by the rules.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Jody – Yes there are cases, though infrequent, when mothers pay child support unfairly. Around 90% of payers are male. But I agree that it’s worth remembering that mothers can also be affected as payers by systemic problems.
I think you’ll find that my use of language is precise and deliberate. Gender is relevant for legitimate gender-based issues (e.g. interaction of biased family court with child support), and to write in less grey tones when discussing particular cases or examples.
People often confuse gender-neutral language with being unbiased, but they’re wrong. Rampant gender bias can happen in an environment of political correctness, as demonstrated by the child support and family court regimes. Cutting our gendered language altogether is overly limiting and achieves little in my opinion.
Our proposed new formula is gender-neutral however. It would also fix your particular problem by eliminating child support when care is 50:50.
Anna
Hello
I am posting this on behalf of an upset father.
I am his his new wife, we are a blended family, I have an 11yr old and he has a 5 yr old .
We receive CS for the 11yr old witch is in areas of $3900 and pay $80 wk for the 5ys old that we usually have 2 nights a week , or 3 nights a ft , however recently the mother of the 5 yr old has told us that she does not want to see us and is very unhappy here with us which sometimes shows, the father worried about her mental health told the mother that perhaps better not being here, and she won’t let him see her either , which now has very much effected him
Although she has called CSA and put our payments up to double and given us arrears .
If it is her doing what can he do. And how can this be fixed. There is not actual court order in place . It is really about what was best for the child and the mother seems to just want more money.
Thanks
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
There is more a care issue than child support, although grabbing 100% custody does financially reward the mother at your family’s expense.
When a parent takes over 100% care for no good reason, the other parent should take action immediately. That means fighting for custody if need be. It starts with mediation (e.g. Relationships Australia). If mediation fails, you’re then able to make a court application. The possibility of long court processes can be enough to convince the alienating parent to start sharing care again.
Darini Clayton
I understand. How come though that our payments increased when she decided to have another child with her now husband? Does that seem fair? We have to pay and go without so as to support her choices? So wrong, so unbalanced and the only people going without is us.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
A parent’s self-support amount goes up when they have a child by the “relevant dependent child amount”. The adjustment is equivalent to reducing the parent’s gross income. Hence, the parent does better in terms of receiving or paying child support.
The relevant dependent child amount is worked out by calculating the costs of a child. In this case, the cost of the child is based just on the income of the parent who has the child (rather than the combined incomes of parents).
The calculation doesn’t make sense because (i) the costs of a new child are taken off gross income, when you actually pay in after-tax dollars and (ii) by using a single income, parents are assumed to spend less on new children than they do on children for which child support payments are made. Both effects reduce the child support advantage from having new children. They are due to conceptual flaws in the current basic formula rather than intelligent design.
Darini Clayton
Thankyou for your thoughts and interesting to hear your take. My only comment though is, why does our child not hold equal importance in terms of financial needs in the eyes of the csa? Why are we in a position where only the child of the divorced parents benefit disproportionately. You talk about the viewing the ex “untaxed amount” as beneficial for their child but it comes at a direct cost to us and our son. As a parent, how am I to be ok with my son going without basics like medicine in order to further fatten other people pockets? This is what upsets and is unfair and by csa standards, we don’t matter. Our son doesn’t matter. Fed up and feeling trapped.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
It would create other problems to treat children equally. Imagine that you’re a single mother who is relying on child support to maintain a decent standard of living for your child. Your ex-husband then decides to have 3 children with his next wife. If all children are treated equally, your received payments might drop to, say, a third of the original level. Under the current system, payments will reduce but not by nearly that much in most cases.
The system is designed to ensure payers can’t duck their responsibilities to their children by having more. You can argue about how balanced the formula is, but there is some sense to the principle that you have to factor in your responsibilities to your existing children before having more.
Darini Clayton
Hi,
Firstly, Thankyou for having this forum as tonight, it helped reading of others in my situation. I am one of those people that seem to be disregarded in this situation- I am a second wife. First marriage for me. For 8 years, I have been in a situation where the CSA only seems to take into consideration what my husbands ex and 12 yr old need. Not what the both of us and our 6 yr old son need. My husband earns a reasonably high income (165k) but even with this, we cannot afford a lifestyle which comes anywhere near the ex. At the end of every fortnight, we are left with about 60 dollars in the bank account. The ex- re married (without telling us), had another baby, travels to Europe once a year, has two brand new cars, their 12 yr old goes to a top private school and lives mortgage free in her grandmothers house. So much has happened in the last 8 yrs butbottom line is, every 6 mths the amount we pay increases at a rate which we cannot afford. There have been times we haven’t been able to pay for medicine for our asthmatic son. The ex left when their son was 6 mths old while he was at work and moved to Brisbane. She hasn’t logged a tax return in years, she works part time. My husband is terrified of her so he has given her everything she demanded included 42K held in a unit trust that is now for their sons education. She withdraws money for school costs. I believe the csa should take that 43k into consideration. We are financially struggling and the more he earns, the less we see of it. I’m fed up, frightened and frustrated at how unfair the system is. Why can’t our son who had two parents have the same options as my husbands and ex’s son? Why are we more inferior?
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Bad things tend to happen whenever the government is overly controlling. And that’s what is happening here. Child Support forces payers on good incomes to make large payments irrespective of the circumstances. So you end up with many demoralised payers who pay too much and struggle unnecessarily, including negative outcomes for their second family.
Our alternative formula, which is far simpler and actually makes sense mathematically, would taper off payment amounts at high incomes. That way, payers who are already contributing a lot can choose to be generous with their children, if it makes sense, by spending on them directly rather than being forced to pay the other parent.
The best way for a child to benefit from a high-income parent is to spend time with the parent. That’s a whole lot better than encouraging one parent to dominate care in order to extract money from the high-income parent by force.
In your case, I’d say you might want to try to see the other parent’s “untaxed” prosperity as good for the child rather than something that’s unfair (even if it is). Ultimately, it’s futile to worry about how other people are doing. The $43k is probably gone now, though your husband shouldn’t have to contribute towards school fees again through child support or otherwise.
ST
It is crazy that in the same situation a woman would look like a caring mother whereas a father would be suspected to have bad intentions.
In a society where women want to be treated equally regarding their careers (and generally everything) it sounds hypocritical to not apply this to child care and parenting.
I’m not an expert, but surely this would be a case of discrimination?
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
For different reasons, some reasonable and some less so, Child Support discriminate against fathers.
The system is set up so that Child Support can get away with a lot. They know the legal boundaries after years of experience. They are comfortable doing things out of habit, such as targeting males. And they’re unafraid of being accused of discrimination. It would happen frequently, but not with repercussions for them.
They also see probably experience men at their worst a lot. They wouldn’t appreciate what many fathers have gone through, such as false violence accusations, losing one’s home and being marginalised as a parent. It’s also hard to be charming on the phone while being questioned over child support. Child Support officers must have highly negative impressions of male payers. In turn, they probably don’t feel the need to treat fathers with much respect. That’s just human nature.
Concerning the issue of staying home, it’s also natural to expect the mother to be the one not working. That’s the pattern that starts after birth. Women breastfeed after all. Anyone might be a bit skeptical about a man staying at home to look after young children when it also allows him to avoid making payments.
Clare
Hi, I have just received mail from CSA, advise that the assessment has changed, My daughter is now 25 and the paperwork goes back to 2009, I have heard nothing from CSA for about 7 years, Why Now?
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Don’t know. Maybe they’re going through old cases that haven’t been closed on their system.
J.R
Hi Andrew,
I have seen a lot of posts about the woman re-partnering, having more kids and being a stay at home mum while the father (new partner) goes back to work. Obviously the system does not see a problem with this as she is caring for her new Baby and a Change of Assessment for earning capacity would be pointless.
I’m wondering if the same concept applies to men who re-partner, have more kids and decide to stay at home to care for the Baby while the mother goes back to work?
I would assume the same rules apply for everyone, but as the term “Gender Equality” is often biased towards women, one can never be sure.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Ha ha. The bloke would probably have to pretend to be one of those effeminate, pro-feminist types who almost passes as a woman.
Seriously, though, Child Support would look for any opportunity to prevent a man staying home to look after kids. They would see it as an attempt to game the system. But Child Support also pretend to be gender-neutral, so it is possible in theory and I wouldn’t be surprised if some people are doing it.
Au
Hi sir Andrew my ex never communicate with child support…when he learned that I applied.for.child support maybe he got the csa notice he emailed me after 2years… He said he will go to court to dispute the csa..What are the circumstances of he.don’t.pay child support?
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
He has no rights here. Child Support have extensive powers to collect by force.
Au
Hi sir Andrew ….
It’s been a year since I had applied for child support and yet I still don’t have any payment from their dad. however the conversations I had with csa representative guarantee that they can collect or make him pay if he is still employ or working in the company address I have told because they can.collect it directly to His employer and there are options on how to collect the payments. However the last time I called Child support they told me that no guarantee if they can collect from him since they don’t hear anything from him. I was confused I been told that they will only collect the payments directly from employer coz csa will deal with the employer and not with him coz they understand he will ignore it. He got the child support notice yet he just ignored and avoid it because to my surprise he emailed me telling me he is aware that i applied for child support and he threatens me…And I had confirmed that all the informations regarding where to contact him is still active nothings changed. So sir please help me …I am raising a 4years old and another 2 years old. He suddenly left us all of a sudden in a tremendous surprise and that was when our kids are aged 2 and other one is 3weeks old. He don’t support and he knew I can’t.work coz I had fresh from operation due to.giving birth. I was bit lucky coz my siblings contribute with each other to pay our house bills, food , and formula for the infant. Now my older kid is going to.school and.soon the second one ,I still can’t work coz no.one can stand looking after them …I had tried working and had a nanny but it didn’t work I resigned coz the nanny resigned and kids are often get sick…He still didn’t support even.how many times I beg him to help me. He told me he don’t have any money, but how can no money bought new car, a house and went to.cruise …pay for our divorce etc. He threatens me regarding to sell the house where me and.the kids living … Now when he got the child support notice he suddenly in contact with me telling me my child support application has been dispute.
Sir what are My chances in getting my support and how long , if he will not pay what are the consequences He will be facing ?
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
I don’t know why you haven’t received payments yet. It’s possible your ex’s employer details are out of date, or the employer has not been cooperating.
Child Support will be doing what they can to ensure payments are made. There are minimum payment amounts even if he has little income. You may want to leave it up to Child Support at this stage since it appears that your ex is not going to pay voluntarily. At least he is communicating with Child Support. Payments are based on care percentages and taxable incomes, and that’s what Child Support will be interested in.
Bazz
Hello.
What I find unfair is that because I did further study and acquired better qualifications which subsequently led to a greater income, my ex partner is now entitled to benifit from this. The advantage I gained by having a larger income is subsequently lost. Why did I even bother.
She works only part time and is not incentivised to garnish full time work, even though it’s been offered to her. She’s currently looking to buy a house and take on a mortgage, meanwhile I can’t afford to do the same. After CS, rent and bills I have nothing left. As far as I’m concerned, CS in Australia is a form of slavery. I must work to pay, which minimises the amount of time I can spend with my children. Meanwhile she has the luxury of minimising employment and spending more time with our children knowing I have to pay for her to do this. She enjoys the benifit of my skills and qualifications, and I don’t.
This is all encompassed in a system where upon separating, a mother can just take your children and force you to fight to see them. Why doesn’t the legislation have a default position of 50/50 custody upon separating? The courts she be considering why this shouldn’t be the case, instead of fathers having to fight (and lose) for it to be the case.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
It’s sometimes useful for payers to think of child support as extra income tax. You do better financially by earning more, even if you’re giving up more than you think is reasonable.
Yes – the system is unfair. Dads are left having to work in order to not see their kids. And it becomes incredibly hard to do things like buy a home.
Reform of the court system has all but been stopped by the domestic violence brigade. See here: https://childsupportaustralia.com/family-law-system-review/
Fixing the child support system would be much easier, as we’ve proven by designing a better system. It includes a formula that is actually mathematically sound.
Bradley
I am unsure of paternity so want to dispute child support. Trouble is I do not have my ex,s contact details to serve her with court papers for DNA testing . Can I serve her through the CSA as they have her details
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Looks like you can serve court papers through Child Support (the Department of Human Services) since the court proceedings relate to paternity. See here for more info: http://guides.dss.gov.au/child-support-guide/6/5/1
Giles
I’m in the unique position of being a payer whilst my wife is a payee for our two beautiful girls.
You have made mention a number of times regarding waiting for ATO to tax up for failure to lodge. It has now been 9 years of failure to lodge by my wife’s ex.
I was reviewed by CSA due to running a business, and as part of the process CSA therefore reviewed my wife as well due to our unique circumstances. This review was finalised last week.
CSA stated that my wife’s ex had income from a profitable business entity in 2004 as the reason for reviewing my wife’s case. They have assessed that at $85K provisional they see no need to increase or reduce the ex’s provisional assessment. However, no mention of failure to lodge or any further investigation. Can a Reason 8 application assist this to be investigated further? The last taxable income details child support has is from 2008.
The father has been running companies of which we obtained ASIC personal name searches confirming this, and has now ceased all directors and set himself up as a sole trader. How long are we expected to wait for failure to lodge to be investigated. We have reported this to the ATO four times over the last 3 years with no outcome. Any suggestions?
Find it ironic that the ATO holds out the successful prosecution of a Failure to lodge for child support case for ten years of no returns as a success on their website, yet 9 years isn’t long enough for them!
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
No suggestions here as it’s really an issue of how the ATO prioritises it’s investigations. You’ve highlighted the problem to them already, which seems about all you can reasonably be expected to do.
Tammy
Spot on Andrew!
FE…
“a mother looking after young children does not have the opportunity to work long hours or accept higher paid positions”
See here’s the thing. If more Fathers were able to split the care of their children then that would free up the Mother’s time to I dunno work as much as the Father does? but why would many of these Mother’s want that when they can have the Father propping them up for years.
What a ridiculous argument. I can tell you from first hand experience that the system is biased against men. I’m a female and I work full time to help support my step children because their Mother re-partnered, had more kids and now leads the life of luxury being a stay at home Mum. She dumped her older kids and is not required to support them in anyway.
CSA will change the care percentage based on a call from a Mother without any evidence or asking the Father what’s going on. Even when there are court orders that state the care arrangements.
And they don’t chat to centerlink or care that a Mother can collect a bucket load of family tax for her bucket load of new kids and misreport her partner’s income to receive max family tax because he has his own business.
Imagine if these Fathers who get stopped from seeing their kids decided to re-partner, have more kids and become a stay at home dad. They would not be required to pay child support and then you’d never stop hearing about it by the poor hard done by Mother’s of their other children. Doesn’t happen.
Withholding access is directly linked to how much more child support they can get. So I suggest an automatic 50/50 shared care arrangement when relationships break down. This means both parents have immediate rights and continued access to their children and would cut out all the drama ,AVO’s, withholding access and the thousands spent on court.
It would free up courts to actually hear cases that need to be heard in situations where there’s evidence that that care arrangement may put the child in danger. Of course no one can force a dead beat parent to step up and want to take that time with their kid so it may all fall on the other parent. Also some may come to their own arrangement if it suits them but still have the legal right to 50/50 shared care.
It would save lives too. So many men’s lives are lost because of vindictive personality disordered woman who’s children are mere objects to them that they use to get to their ex.
In short. Yes the system is biased.
Tammy
I am a Step Mother and believe the system is unfair and biased towards Mothers. My partner always paid the correct amount of child support PLUS paid for extra things his children needed when their Mother was primary carer.
When she agreed to him increasing the overnight care of his children she switched the first time he was to have them longer and said to bring them home. Next when he stood his ground she said she no longer wanted them and would sign custody over to him then showed up and forcibly removed them from his care and contacted the CSA the next day to report zero care to increase his child support payments. They did not bother to contact him to confirm this.
Fast forward and they lodged 50/50 consent orders. He still had to pay her some child support because she doesn’t work. She’s not a hard off single mother though. She re-partnered and had 4 more children and is the stay at home parent which enables her partner to run their business.
How many Fathers re-partner and then become stay at home dads when they have more kids and then get out of paying child support for their older children?
She wasn’t happy that she now had to split Family Tax and would receive less child support (even though it was 50/50 and she should not receive any) She decided to dump her children on the doorstep after a month of 50/50 and my partner became the primary carer. Of course he then received no child support because she does not work.
Fast forward a few years and the eldest child runs away to her house one day but asked a friend to come pick him up that night and take him home. She wouldn’t let him leave so dad thought what’s the harm if he visits his mother during the school holidays as they rarely saw her and his son decided to stay for this time. She decided to claim child support and once again the CSA did not confirm the situation with my partner. He would have explained it was a visit only that he consented to because they had not been spending any time with her and he would not have consented to his son living there full time and did not have to agree as there are 50/50 consent orders in place. He appealed their decision to bill him for child support during that period but lost the case. His son ended up having to run away from her after 6 weeks to come home.
Fast forward a year and his son decides to live with his Mother and even though my partner has their other two children in his full time care he’s required to pay her child support for him. He found out that his son left school soon after and started an apprenticeship with her partner.
My partner earns below $50,000 a year and feels it is unjust to continue to pay for a son who is now working when he has his other two children in his care full time and receives no child support for them. He can easily demonstrate after expenses he has nothing left. I actually pay for a chunk of his expenses. He applied to have his case reassessed under the special circumstances that his son is working.
He received confirmation of his application a month after applying outlining what the procedure would be. He was told he would be contacted by a special case manager and would be provided copies of any documents or information provided by the other parent and would be given the opportunity to respond to this.
This did not happen.
Instead he received a message to call CSA after some time. When he did they were unable to tell him what the call was regarding but did say the case was still being assessed. Next he received a blank letter from them that said Dear [insert name] and Yours sincerely.
When he inquired twice no one was able to tell him what the letter was about. He was told it would be followed up and heard nothing back.
A few days ago (over 3 months since applying) he called the CSA once again and was told over the phone that his case was declined due to his son only receiving $200 a week.
He has received nothing in writing and non of their procedures were followed. He would like to know where they got their information and to have the right of reply because a quick google search reveals that is not what an apprentice should be earning.
This is so frustration and unjust and it feels like it’s designed for people to just give up and accept an their unprofessional practices and the unfair outcome.
My partner called the complaints line and it was too late in the day to be put through to the case manager he’s never heard from who’s in another state. They actually suggested that he take time off work to call.
Unsure what to do next but we’re not going to let this lie.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
Child Support are geared towards going after payers. As you’ve discovered, the flipside of this is that they’re extremely sloppy in protecting payers from exploitation and administrative errors.
Jo
My ex pays basic child support, where both incomes and nights of stay have been taken into account. I know for a fact that my ex has other business ventures where he may not be declaring his income, or may have another ABN numbers and he delays as much as possible to lodge his tax return. He is also a financial advisor which means he will know the loopholes in the system.
Andrew Lancaster (admin)
He might simply be not paying himself much out of his businesses, and building the value of the businesses instead. Not such a bad thing because it increases his future earning capacity. Could result in more child support in the future, or greater support for your child(ren) after age 18. Worth keeping him onside since he’ll be less resentful of having to also pay you whenever he pays himself.